Replacement Value for a Discontinued Furniture Piece

[Cossachka]

I'd really appreciate any input on figuring out fair replacement value for a furniture piece that is no longer manufactured.

A lot of our furniture sustained some damaged during our move from Northern to Southern CA by Peeters Trasportation, who is an agent for Atlas Van Lines. We purchased full value insurance with a $250 deductible. After obtaining estimates from furniture repairman my husband submitted our claim to Peeters. We've got the first ridiculously low settlement offer from Vanliner, Peeters insurance company, on July 14, 2005, and have been exchanging letters and phone calls with them ever since in an effort to get a more representative amount for the damage.

In particular, we are having difficult time figuring out fair replacement value for our rosewood veneer dining room table and bedroom chest that are not repairable. Vanliner offered us $1,249.50, 50% of the amount claimed for the table (at the time I thought that we should get paid for the six matching chairs, which were $199 plus tax each) and nothing for the chest. Their manufactur, Hundevad & Co, merged with another Danish furniture manufacturer, Jesper International, in 1995, the year we bought our rosewood furniture on a huge sale.

We paid $1,499 plus tax, delivery and setup for the dining table in 1995 and have the original receipt to prove it. It came with six chairs, each costing $199 plus tax. That was a sale price so not replacement value, which we should be getting. Apparently Hundevad was a famous furniture designer, his wood (not veneer so not a comparable again) pieces can only be acquired at auctions at the moment. At a minimum we should get what we paid for the table in '95 adjusted for inflation. Should chairs be covered too since we can't use them without the table? I feel that we the insurance company should cut us a check for what it would cost to buy another rosewood veneer dining room table of the same size today since it would certainly be more than what we paid for our furniture back in 1995 but I am having trouble figuring out what that would be. Sales people claim that there is nothing comparable to Hundevad on the market right now. I e-mailed Jesper to see if they can help but so far has not heard back from them.

Figuring out replacement value for the chest is even murkier since we purchased a bedroom set without breakdown for individual pieces.

[Cossachka]

Just remembered that I did find a few dining tables that look a lot like ours, at least from the pictures online. Same folding hide-away leaf, pedestal base, slightly different top shape. For example, one is oval rather than boat shaped, and pedastal base is bit more elaborate than ours but still very similar. It's available for $2,695 plus tax and delivery from http://www.smithinteriors.com/dr5.html Another similar rosewood table manufactured by Skovby has suggested retail price of $2,394 but can be purchased from VikingHome.com for mere $2,176. Plus tax, delivery and set up. Add to that the cost of matching chairs, which are not covered by insurance from what I understand, but which we might have to buy anyway at $400-$500 each. That's why I feel that $1,249.50 is not a fair replacement value for our loss.

What should I submit to the insurance company to substantiate a higher claim value in a case where no exact saubstitute is available? I don't think historic value is the same as replacement value in this case .

[BigLeeCalif]

Cossachka at any time were you offered what is called a high value inventory ? This is a form where you list individual items of higher than normal value, and on this form you can list the item value.

You mentioned you have original receipts, but that one mfg merged with another.

Have you tried getting letters from the mfg to substantiate that the items you are referring to are discontinued items, and stating what the replacement cost on the market would be today?

Moving within the state of California you should have been provided with the booklet, Important Information for Persons Moving Household Goods (within California) tells you what to expect from your california moving company.

You should also read the back of your freight bill and see what is specifically exempt from coverage for that particular moving company.

If you are unsatisfied with the results you are getting from the moving company, remember that Movers within California are regulated by the PUC.

The following link will direct you to the California moving regulatory info page... http://www.avatar-moving.com/kb/doc_cmsa.html

Big Lee
_________________
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt" Mark Twain

[Guest]

Anybody willing to chime in? I just got a very nice reply from Jesper Office, which took over the company that manufactured our un-repairable dining room table, to my surprise. The person who responded to my inquiry basicly can't help me in any way. So the questtion remains. How can I figure out a replacement value for an item that is no longer manufactured?

Thank you for your email. I am sorry to hear about the damaged dining
table.

As you know Jesper Office does not manufacture dining tables. And
unfortunately we do not have any information about the products that
were produced by Hundevad beore we took over the company. Therefore we will not be able to suggest any other manufacturer to you. We do not
know the design and the quality of the former Hundevad products.

I hope you will find another solution to your problem. Sorry we were
not able to help you.


Best regards


Inge Fruensgaard
Executive Assistant

[Guest]

Thank you for responding to my plea for help, Big Lea. I don't believe that a dining room table would be considered a High Value Item. A similar table by another Danish manufacturer, Skovby, weights 150 lbs, so even at $3,000, it's only $20/lb, far below the $100/lb to be considered a HVI. And yes, I still have "Important Information for Persons Moving Household Goods (withing California)" booklet that we were given by our movers. To be fair it is not Peeters Trasnportation who are/were difficult about the claim but rather their insurance company, Vanliner.

We are considering all our options, including small claims court, but I'd like to give Vanliner another chance to make it right before we go there so trying to figure out what, if anything, I can submit to them to substantiate a higher claim amount. I will certainly attach a copy of Jesper Office e-mail, saying that they don't manufacturer dining room tables. I don't know whether PUC can help but I'll it in mind. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. We have moved to Ukraine few months ago so would rather settle than sue. I am trying to wrap this up before I start my job.

[Cossachka]

Sorry for misspelling your name, Big Lee, that was really sloppy of me . My only execuse is that it's 1:30 AM here and I was hoping to post a quick answer so that you could see it right away.

[BigLeeCalif]

Hi Cossachka,

I went through a situation similar to yours with the merging of two companies a year ago. I bought a pre hung entrance door from Home Depot special order desk.

Three months later, (2 months late) I was delivered the wrong door. After another three months of delays I was told that company B had purchased Company A, and that the door I ordered was no longer available.

After I mentioned to them that I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, and that common sense would show that if company B bought Company A, who manufactured the door; the door that company A made was now the property of Company B. Well within 14 days the door mysteriously appeared at my house.

The point I am making is that when two companies merge, unless there is a specific agreement nothing prior to the sale is part of the business, the company telling you that they have no information on the company before they took it over is not being totally honest..

All companies keep archives of the products they manufacture, and at the very least have drawings or blueprints.

I worked in Dublin with one of Peeters competitors from 1996 - 2002, and never heard any negative comments about their operation.

Perhaps you should consider writing sending them copies of your correspondence to Vanliner, and mentioning that you purchased full value protection, and not value based on items no longer manufactured.

Here is a tidbit of information you probably already have, but I thought I'd include anyway.

Under Full Value Protection, your mover is liable for the replacement value of lost or damaged goods in your entire shipment. This is the more comprehensive plan available for the protection of your belongings. Unless you select the alternative level of of liability described below—Released Value—your mover will transport your shipment under the Full Value Protection level of liability. If any article is lost, destroyed or damaged while in your mover's custody, your mover will, at its discretion, offer to do one (1) of the following for each item:

* Repair the item
* Replace with a similar item
* Make a cash settlement for the cost of the repair or the current market replacement value


Under this option, movers are permitted to limit their liability for loss or damage to articles of extraordinary value, unless you specifically list these articles on the shipping documents. An article of extraordinary value is any item whose value exceeds $100 per pound (i.e., jewelry, silverware, china, furs, antiques). Ask your mover for a written explanation of this limitation before your move.

The exact cost for Full Value Protection varies by mover and may be subject to various deductible levels of liability that may reduce your cost. Ask your mover for written details of their Full Value Protection plan.

Note* I realize that your items may not have been in the over $100/lb, but for future reference you can always ask for a high value inventory form, and use it to list items that are valuable to you. One reason is that you have then established prior to the move the value of items, so that the mover is aware in writing, whether they are actual high value or not.

Lee
_________________
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt" Mark Twain

[Michael]

My first question, have you already submitted a claim? If you have, you can only submit one claim. You cannot re-submit another claim.

Second, what would it cost you today to buy a similar table since yours is no longer made? That should have been you claim, to replace the table.

Third, was the table destroyed or messed up beyond being fixed? They have the right to fix or repair first.

Lastly, your chairs were not damaged so no you cant file a claim on the chairs. Now my understanding if a chair was destroyed then yes you could possibly file a claim to replace the set if the chairs were no longer manufactured.

Keep doing what you need to do but be prepared for what you have now.

Best of luck,
_________________
Michael
************************************

Forget yourself for others and the others will never forget

[Guest]

Thank you for taking time to respond to my inquiry, Michael. Sorry if it was not clear from my OP, but we did file a claim in March of 2005. We asked $2,499 for the table, which was our best guesstimate based on our store vists in San Diego area of how much it would cost to purchase a comparable table (as in similar size from the same wood) at the moment of filing our claim. From the comparables listed below, you'd see that we'd have to spend more out of pocket to get a comparable replacement table.

According to the repairman, who gave us the estimates in November 2004 & January 2005 , the table can not be repaired. It has been badly dented on top and since it's veneered rather than harswood, it can not be sanded or steamed. There is also a hole poked through the table's pedestal base. The repaireman suggested cash out.

We did not claim anything for the chairs since based on my research of industry practices it was my understanding that they won't be covered. Still it is highly likely that we'll have to replace the matching chairs when we replace the damaged table so I could not help but b!tch about that.

According to Vanliner "As it now appears you are unable to provide proof of value" so they offered us "50% of the amount claimed on the table or $1249.50." And nothing for the bedroom chest, which the repairman said can not be fixed either. Hence I am trying to figure how I can prove to the insurance company that replacement value for the table is about $2500. Any idea what they are looking for? Would a print out of the price for a similar table from a website like this http://tinyurl.com/nupmz do?

I just received an e-mail from the manager of VikingHome.com that the SM34 table by Skovby, the one that most resembles ours, has been discontinued as well so we can't buy one. The suggested retail price for that table is/was $2394, with tax it'd be $2579.54. Another rosewood veneered table by Skovby, DC04, which is also similar to our table, has a suggested retail price of $2806, available from VikingHome.com for $2551, plus 7.75% tax. That does not even include delivery and set-up charges. I guess my husband, who was filling out the submitted claim form, must have forgotten to add tax so we really could have claimed more for the table but oh well, $2499 would do.[/i]

[Guest/Michael]

I would do everything possible to prove what the cost of the table would be to replace it. You obviously have proof from the repair person (whom I assume Atlas sent out) who stipulated it could not be fixed or repaired. And since the table is no longer manufactured, according to the valuation, they have the right to fix or repair, if it cannot be fixed or repaired, which we know, then it is replaced at current market value. Meaning, what would it cost today to replace with the same table or one similar to it.

So yes I would send them everything you possibly can to show them that you can provide proof. And dont wait, otherwise they get you on a technicality I am sure.

Best of luck,