vivo van lines/ Carmel Movers, Inc

[Diane]

[Guest]

I agree, that one or two good moves do not cancel out many bad moves. The basis for good/bad rating of a company is not when a move goes well, but when it does not go well and it not handled well.

After reading MusicMom's statements accusing people who said anything positive of working for Vivo Vanline or Carmel (and for the record, they are different legal entities, according to Mass) makes me leary of her statements.

Now, since you are in the business: you read the comments and give comments on some of these: If the large truck cannot come into an area, is there an extra charge? Or is there an extra charge for multiple stories with or without elevator? What do you give for accuracy range on estimates of size/cost? And range for time 'estimates'?

On a seperate issue, I recently have had a car shipped from Boston to California (with autolog). The original "estimate" was for 7/3, then changed to 7/10, now it is 7/13. Is this normal? They blamed 9/11, the holiday weekend (yes, they must not have expected 4th of July to be on 7/4 this year). Is this a scam or a screw up?

[MusicMom]

I do not suspect ALL people who claim good moves with companies that are riddled with complaints. Just ones that appear out of the blue from the same town as the company.

Plain old Carmel Movers (no Inc) was the one that also used the name Top Flite. Their license was revoked and they re-opened under the wholely original name of "Carmel Movers, Inc". This is the one I was referring to. The one who gives their customers' loads to unlicensed drivers and drivers who falsify their required logbooks.

If you are an actual customer, great.

As for the other guest considering Carmel, take into ccount this poster's comments. But please also take into account the other multiple complaints with great detaisl and great sadness, and consider the history of the Moshes (Carmel's owners) when they ran Vivo Van Lines. Carmel is not a "division of" Vivo, they are a "reincarnation of" Vivo. The complaints have stayed the same even though the name changed. The owners are the same, the address is the same, I bet even the employees and equipment is the same. It is a story that is repeated all over the country when the heat gets too bad for scammers who've been Blacklisted. Read through the names and see who is an "alias of" who else.

If you compare the BBB reports of Vivo to Carmel, notice that Vivo's 22 complaints from 2004 settle off, 2005 has one and two for each company, and Carmel's begin to creep up (11 in 2006). See a pattern?

[Guest]

If what you say about unlicensed drivers and doctored log books are true, then you can have the owners shut down. Not just the corporation, but the people who run it, the term is called jail time.

[MusicMom]

This is a strange turnaround for you, Guest. Just a few hours ago, you were leary of what I was saying about Carmel, having had such a great move with them.

But yes, it's true, here's the link:
http://ai.fmcsa.dot.gov/SafeStat/DriverSEA.asp?ais=&dot=1266989&WhichForm=safer&PageN=OOSDetail

But I have no power to shut down any corporation for any reason. If that were the case, a LOT of movers would be begging for table scraps right now . The DOT can fine comapnies, and hope the comapny pays the fines. More often than not, the company shuts down and re-openes with a clean record (like Vivo and Carmel)

[moving to vermont]

I am using carmel movers on a move to Vermont from Massachusetts this upcoming weekend. I looked at the BBB website, they had 14 complaints in the last 36 months, not great but not as earthshatteringling terrible as you all have been insinuating. They have the permits for interstate moves, unlike what some of you have said. I have no idea about their drivers! They gave me a quote by weight on the information I sent them, I am actually moving less than what I said I would, let's see how that goes.

Carmel, if you are reading this website you had better make my move damn good, because I am going to report on all aspects of this move on this website once it is done. I am also not a shrinking violet, instead of just whining on newsgroups, I take action when I am pissed off. You might be interested in who I know and can help me.

I am sending a pointer of this to Kurt, who is the person I contacted at Carmel, just to let him know I am watching. Hi Kurt!

[MusicMom]

I hope your move goes well, too.

[Guest]

I just checked the site as you pointed out. According to this, Carmel movers inc., has been in business since 2004, has not been out of service. And they have $1M of coverage where only $750k is required.


It is not a change of tone. I base statements of fact. If you have something to say, then back it up with fact. If you have opinion based on fact, then show the facts. But, when someone starts making accusations that you work for them, or when you asked if I was affiliated with their San Jose office, though I will be in Sunnyvale to pick up my new Lexus Sc430.

And by the way, there are some ways to try to detect if a visit to a site is your first, but that is easily defeatible. Cookies can be flushed, ip addresses can be masked.

[Distraugt]

I have been scammed. I had completely trusted this company. I was told that my shiptment would arrive by July 10th and nothing has arrived. I spoke extensively with Ivan who assured me multiple times that his company was reputable. I trusted him much to my better judgement. Now they still have my stuff and almost all of the payment and I don{t know what to do. I am scared things will be stolen and damaged and worse of all never get to Florida.

[Guest]

Distraugt,
What did they say the reason was for this "delay"? I received my car, 10 days late, from Autolog. They sent me a late claim form. Of course, there are delays in transporting, but how long is reasonable?

With my car, they told me that it was a holiday weekend, therefore a delay -- bogus excuse since July 4th has been on the same date for at least the last 50 years. They told me that trains on the same could have been stopped -- valid if true, but they were just guessing. They told me that it was because of 9/11 -- well, 9/11 happended back in 2001, they should have expected some of that delay. They said other items on the train had to be loaded and unloaded -- true, but was this just a guess or a truth? The autoshipping company is an aggregator, not the people running the train. On a moving van, unless you are the only person on the truck their are delays when loading and unloaded when unexpected things happened. Ie. when the truck can't fit on the road where the house is, or there is a huge piano that has to be put on the 3rd floor and it won't fit in the elevator -- and the mover was not told about this. Of course a good moving company should tell the other people waiting about the delay so they know when to expect their stuff.

[Diane]

If you received a car only 10 days late from Autolog, that is not even in the same ballpark with being without your household goods (beds, dishware, clothes) for weeks like the people posting on this thread about Carmel.

[Guest]

Are you saying being without a car is not a problem? Moving a car and home furnishings are different.

But the reasons for being late is similar. Years ago I drove from Boston to Austin, I was delayed for a while because a belt broke -- 4pm on July 3rd, had to wait 3 hours for a belt. When I drove from Sunnyvale to Los Angeles, I was stuck in many miles of traffic going through Valencia.

What I was saying is that some reasons for a delay is valid. Some reasons are not.

If and when you moved, were all your boxes packed and they could back the truck up to your door? Was that true for every person whose items were on that truck? And was this true for everyone having their items delivered on the truck?

[Ex-employee]

BEWARE!!! KEEP AWAY FROM THESE CREEPS!!!!

I used to work for these people for a few months, until one of my customers told me to look here, in the Black List. I'm an honest person, so I quit. I did Sales, and only Sales. Anything to do with Customer Service was always automatically directed to another # so we never knew the Hell our customers went through. (By the way, Jennifer is Vivo's wife). Not only does this company rip off their customers, but also their employees. They have refused to pay me, even though I gave them plenty of notice of my intentions. I know they were mad at my reason for quitting, but like I said, I am an honest person. Vivo & his partner Matt (Moshi) both live in what you & I would consider mansions, they have several cars, the new Mustangs, BMW's, etc. They are living high on the hog stepping on people and they really do NOT care about their customers, employees, or anything. I am a single mother and they know that I support my kids by myself, but don't care. So, PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM THIS COMPANY!!! THEY WILL RIP YOU OFF!!

[Guest]

[penghuin]

This is a copy of the letter I just sent to my lawyer about these people.

So, here's the history of the Carmel Mover's saga, up to this morning.

In February, I contacted Carmel Movers to ship the contents of my house from Somerville, MA to Portland, OR. The agreed dates were- pickup in MA on 06/08/06, and delivery in OR between 6/16/06 and 6/19/06. This was necessary, because from 6/20/06 to 07/08/06, my girlfriend and I were to be on vacation and unable to accept delivery. I paid a downpayment of $342, which was an estimated 15% of the total costs.

On 06/08/06, the movers arrived, and everything was fine until they prepared to leave, when they hit me with extra packing charges. It seems there is a specific charge for packing a television, and for using their boxes. This would have been acceptable, except they only told me about the costs after the fact. Also, the boxes they charged me for were filled with boxes I had packed, so I don't understand why their boxes were required. At the time, I complained, but acquiesced only to move the process forward. I also made a second payment of $1026, an estimated 40% of the total cost.

On 06/09/06, I called Carmel to find out what the final cost would be, after the wieghing of my property. It was significantly higher than estimated, but there was more to ship than expected. This extra cost was, at the time, understandable.

However, at the same time, I was told they cold no longer guarantee my delivery date, instead saying the truck would arrive in Portland between 06/18/06 and 06/23/06. I told them this was unacceptable, and they said there was nothing they could do, despite what the contract said. This seems to me to be a clear breach of contract.

After thinking about the issue, I gave in again, and called later that day to leave a message changing the delivery date to 07/09/06. I received no communication from Carmel to indicate that would be a problem. Meanwhile, they would store it in MA.

On 07/03/06, I received a message from Carmel that they would pack my property and ship it out on 07/05/06. At this point, I was a little worried, since it seemed clear they were not going to make the delivery date. Still, I figured it couldn't possibly take more than a week, and I was willing to wait until Wednesday, 07/12/06.

I heard nothing from Carmel for a week. On Tuesday, 07/11/06, I contacted them, and was informed that the truck was in Nevada on the way to California, and that the driver would call me that day. He didn't. Still, I figured- Nevada to California in one day, California to Oregon in one day, and I'd have my property Thursday or Friday.

On Friday, 07/14/06, I finally received a message informing me that the truck with my property had arrived in California, and did I want them to send it to Oregon. I called the office number given to me, and no one answered. I left a message saying, in effect, 'Yes, I want my stuff sent up to me, a week ago, and it had better be on the way.' When I called the cell phone number, the man said he didn't have any paperwork with him, and would call me when he got back into the office in half an hour. He didn't call. I called the office later that day, and again no one answered. I called the cell phone again, and this time he could apparently help me. Although he then told me it was now to late to send it up on Friday, since they hadn't heard from me since they called. No acknowledgement of the fact that I had in fact called them, and the lack of communication was theirs. He did say that he would work on scheduling my load in that weekend, and he'd get back to me. He didn't.

I called on Saturday 07/15/06, and was told a driver would 'probably' be there Sunday or Monday, and would drive my property up the day after. He also said he would call me with an update, and didn't.
Having heard nothing from them, I called on Monday 07/17/06. The shipment is now a week late from the revised drop date, and nearly a month from the original. Apparently the driver never showed up, but they didn't figure I needed to know. I was told that the next truck would be leaving for Oregon on Thursday, and that his brother would be in the office dealing with scheduling from this point forward.

Tuesday, 07/18/06, I called the new person at the California office, who said he was working on a schedule, and would get back to me. He didn't.

Wednesday, 07/19/06, the new person said he didn't think everything would go on one truck, but would try to get most of it up 'in the next couple of days,' and the rest next week. He would let me know the situation once the truck was packed Thursday morning.

Thursday, 07/20/06, I was unable to get in touch with Carmel in California all day. I left messages. They never called, or answered the phone.

Friday, 07/21/06, after they finally answered the phone, I was told there was a problem with the truck, and it couldn't drive to Oregon. The next one would be next Saturday. I yelled for a little bit, got nowhere, hung up and called the head office in Boston, hoping they might be able to do something. Apparently not.

The woman at dispatch in Boston talked to the California office and came back with an interesting story. Apparently, the California office's justification for delaying my stuff was that I hadn't gotten back to them within 24 hours of their notification. Which is clearly a blatant lie to cover themselves with the home office. She also said that I had been dealing with the same person over there the whole time, which is also not true. Or, if it is true, then he told a bizarre lie about a brother and having to be in Colorado. Ultimately, she said there was nothing she could do, and my stuff would arrive on Saturday, 07/29/06. Three weeks later than the revised date, and a month and a half from the original one. When I asked about how much of a discount this massive inconvenience would create, the woman got somewhat cold, and told me I'd have to talk to the California office.

As I was writing this letter, the California office called me to say that they were sending a half loaded truck up with my stuff, and it will arrive on Monday or Tuesday. He says they'll call me on Monday to arrange a specific time.

Frankly, I don't believe it. Throughout this experience, dealing with Carmel has been nothing but a hassle. They refuse to call when they say they will, they don't answer the phone, and they are clearly incompetent at actually getting property across the country, which is, in fact, their job.

At this point, I have been sleeping on the floor for two weeks. I have no furniture, very few clothes, no computer, no kitchen implements. Every day my property is not here constitutes a significant loss to me in terms of productivity, efficiency, and comfort. I in fact have no proof that they haven't just stolen everything I own to sell to a pawn shop. I want to know how much liability Carmel has for this delay due to their clear incompetence. I'm thinking at least $100 a day. The question is, would the start date of their liability be from 06/19/06, when the contract says they were to deliver, or from 07/09/06, the date it got changed to once they broke contract.