Sirva is now owned by

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smatwilly
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Sirva is now owned by

Postby smatwilly » Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:20 am

at least the majority by JP MORGAN - it wasnt the van lines Allied/NAVL that caused the downfall but rather the investment of houses & insurance companies--they just did not know how to basically run them........My guess, JPM will sell quickly because they have no clue about the relocation industry---The best scenario is for some of the larger agents to get together & buy the moving companies---right now the best chance would be by NAVL - they have some HUGE agencies that could afford it--if the opportunity ever arrises. Chapter 11 filing was a good thing--it brought their interest debt way down. Nothing has changed with the van lines----I just feel bad because NAVL was made aware of this two days prior to going to the big Sirva convention---Allied was made aware of it the day after they go there---in one of their meetings. What a shock! Allied lost three major players---over 5k shipments a year----NAVL is a very strong group & a very prosperous one- even with the economy. The next five years will be interesting to see- all in all, the convention was wonderful! We left there wondering "what bankruptcy" because of how lavish it was.

Now, back to life in the real, cold world! :lol:

ArchieWhite
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Re: Sirva is now owned by

Postby ArchieWhite » Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:36 am

Interesting.....keep us posted......I'm curious, you said their debt went away....? where did it go?

bosoxfan
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Re: Sirva is now owned by

Postby bosoxfan » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:01 pm

I bumped into a Northamerican driver this morning who was pulling a Global van Lines trailer - with the name Beltway out of CA. He said Global is no longer in operation as of last month. The assets of Global Van Lines were merged into North American. Also, recently Sirva wanted to buyout Budd Van Lines and National Van Lines, but were rebuffed - they saw what was happening and said no.

Big Dog
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Re: Sirva is now owned by

Postby Big Dog » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:01 pm

From what I've read, the debt was reduced, it didn't go away completely. Please confirm who Allied lost, Flood, Continental, Dircks? I agree that the Agents should try to purchase the van lines. Imagine, a van lines agent owned. It may come "full circle". 8)

bosoxfan
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Re: Sirva is now owned by

Postby bosoxfan » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:36 pm

Fourty - two North American agents bought the NAVL Logistics in 2004 and rebranded it 'STI', so there is precedent that the agents are willing to buy segments of the business. Hopefully the big agents, such as Beltmann, Ward, Sterling and Alex along with the rest can band together and purchase the household outright. Sirva or JP Morgan Chase should be in the position to listen to any reasonable offers.

JMillerFL
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Re: Sirva is now owned by

Postby JMillerFL » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:46 pm

Just to clarify SIRVA was not going to buy National Van Lines. Maurine has no intention of selling. National being up for sale or being purchased are rumors and no more than that. :roll:

smatwilly
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Bsoxfan

Postby smatwilly » Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:42 pm

Yes, we can only hope that those core NAVL agents you mentioned will buy! Those are the major players & money makers! There are a couple more but those are the big "boys"!! We were sitting at the awards banquet with Alex--(Alex Moving & Storage) - he actually owns the equivilent to a (us) major league baseball team in Mexico--he built his own stadium! Very smart man! He retired a few yrs back in his late forties & ended up coming back--I think he realized that nobody can run your business like yourself! Beltman is the largest hauling agency---he could buy Sirva/NAVL on his own if he wanted to---his son was there as well so maybe if he wants to keep it in the family bad enough........(cross fingers & hope!)
There are some great agents that do great work & hopefully they will stay that way!!

joesgarage39
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Re: Sirva is now owned by

Postby joesgarage39 » Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:49 pm

Years ago Allied was agent owned. It actually was formed as a non-profit orgainization owned by the agents in the system. Way back then when authority was an issue it reduced the amount of deadheading an agents truck would do. It wasn't until I think the laste 60's or early 70' that it became a public entity. No the debt didnt go away, the mount of interest was reduced to lower the debt to a manageable position where Sirva now has enough capital to operate in a seemingly normal fashion, hence the restructring of debt to be able to operate under backruptcy laws. Chase has plenty of money and they may see some advantages of retaining Sirva for the future since they are into just about everything. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Certainly the loss of 5000 moves annually will hurt but it also gives them a chance to step back and reorganize to make themselves stronger. It is the true businessman that will find the opportunity within a plagued market to perpetuate a product or service. Southwest Airlines is a great example of this. The only sure things I have been able to ascertain is Flood and Dirk's. All the others are still thinking of their options. There are many agents in the system that see promise in the future..Dan at Sircusa being one.

joesgarage39
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Re: Sirva is now owned by

Postby joesgarage39 » Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:51 pm

Sorry I meant Morgan and not Chase

bosoxfan
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Re: Sirva is now owned by

Postby bosoxfan » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:50 pm

Joe - you're right on both counts - its JP Morgan Chase.

Easy
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Re: Sirva is now owned by

Postby Easy » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:06 pm

Partial ownership was given to the "banks" in return for a reduction of debt. That reduction resulted in a lowering of the annual interest Sirva owes on the balance. On the "blue" side, the filing of the bankruptcy immediately "stayed" any termination notices that were incoming. Based on recent events, that issue has possibly been resolved. On the "orange" side, their was an appearance of "subterfuge" by Sirva. Allied agents had a better opportunity to leave than the NAVL agents did. There are a "ton" of agents who prepared themselves to leave, whether they do or not has yet to be seen.

IMP
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Re: Sirva is now owned by

Postby IMP » Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:27 pm

Budd being bought by SIRVA - that's a funny joke!
There are still good people who move good people.

Phaeton
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Re: Sirva is now owned by

Postby Phaeton » Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:47 pm

What percentage of ownership do the banks have? You said partial. Reading the information it shows all stock is to be canceled and the bank will own 100%. Which is the right information or percentage.

One wouldn't think that a bank wants to run any business much less a moving van line. So the bank will look to sell the van lines. Perhaps to ABF or UPS or even Unigroup. Somebody will buy it and help the bank get some of their investment back.

Your right about terminations being stayed. A court might order the Allied agents to stay even if their agreement is up. Hard to make them stay on the Blue side if the Orange side is leaving.

All of this will play out in the motions and pleadings that will be heard over the next three or four weeks.


Easy wrote:Partial ownership was given to the "banks" in return for a reduction of debt. That reduction resulted in a lowering of the annual interest Sirva owes on the balance. On the "blue" side, the filing of the bankruptcy immediately "stayed" any termination notices that were incoming. Based on recent events, that issue has possibly been resolved. On the "orange" side, their was an appearance of "subterfuge" by Sirva. Allied agents had a better opportunity to leave than the NAVL agents did. There are a "ton" of agents who prepared themselves to leave, whether they do or not has yet to be seen.

joesgarage39
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Re: Sirva is now owned by

Postby joesgarage39 » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:29 am

I don't see where banks were given ownership for reducing the debt. That really doesn't make sense either. Some of Sirva's problems certainly are a result of the downturn in the industry over teh past few years and also as a result of the housing market but it cuts way deeper than that. Sirva used to be a private company. Take a look at their financials in the years 2003 thru 2006 and you will see some interesting stuff that makes some sense. Sirva raised almost 400 million dollars in its initial public offering. Their initial investment (made by the owners Clayton, Dublier and Rice) was 179 million dollars. Things were going well and in mid 2004 they made another public offering. They sold the offerings and kept about one third of the shares but made 430 million dollars from the deal. They unloaded their stocks in the 2004 offering. Not a bad deal on a 179 million dollar investment. This Dublier guy was pretty savvy..follow this. It is after 2004 that things started to look a little different. Sarbanes-Oxley was put into law after Enron so that shady accounting practices could no longer be the norm. At the end of 2004 Sirva found the books weren't quite right so they didn't file they said it was because of an earnings shortfall. Since then they have had problems with the books it looks like especially in the pension funds. By the end of '06 they were in pretty bad shape. Upon doing a little more research..all the people that were at the top making all these decisions got out..just in the nick of time it seems. The middle of last year saw a complete restructuring of top level management. These are all Harvard MBA guys. They couldn't get the books right. But there were worse things going on other than the pension fund that were brought to light later. They got a non-qualified clean bill of health under Sarbane-Oxley only after they did a little more restructuring in the financial department. Seems that they got a clean bill of financial health when they shouldn't and when the big guys seen what way the wind was blowing they bolted. These guys knew what they were doing. The ymade a fortune and split. Going in and out of the public for funds to reap their profits. Well it all caught up with them when they settled in June for over 53 million in a class action lawsuit for securities violations. Notto mention the suit they settled to repay BI&PD that should have been returned to drivers for years. They also received a Wells Notice from the government at the time of settlement which is a recommendation for someone to file civil suits. The bankruptcy petition allows them to restructure its senior debt the debt that was probably coming due very soon for payment. Their debt was reduced by 200 million, meaning it was wiped away which saves them about 54 million a year in interest payments. What they did was cancel the outstanding capital stock which is why you can't see anything when you look for a price on the market. Sirva filed for loans from lenders of 150 million to be able to operate in a normal fashion. This loan will turn into a loan of over 200 million when their restructuring is complete and they will use most of this 200 million to pay their bills and have open lines of credit. They filed a few days ago to be able to do things like sell their recieveables and other things to reamin fluid. It is all based on debt for equity which gives the lenders a buy in but not necessairly ownership. They have put what equity they do have up in order to get the loans to operate.

Big Dog
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Re: Sirva is now owned by

Postby Big Dog » Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:28 am

Good information. However, does anybody know if any of the big players are going to band together & try to purchase AVL? Is it too early to make a "play"? 8)


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