Advice Please!!

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vcobbs
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Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:18 pm

Advice Please!!

Postby vcobbs » Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:22 pm

I'll try to make this nightmare short. I moved from San Diego, CA to K.C. in 7/02. I chose Bekins Moving & Storage located in San Diego to move my furniture, after getting 4 other estimates. The rep I spoke to said from my description of my furniture, I had approximately 4,000lbs. The quote was between $2200 to $2300. My furniture was picked up on 7/27/02 with a delivery date of no later than 8/10/02. By 8/12/02 no furniture. On 8/13/02 I called Bekins and could get no explanation of what the delay was in fact I spoke to the person that scheduled the deliver and he was not aware of any delay. He did some checking and found out that the driver had gotten ill and they would find another driver and my furniture was rescheduled for delivery the following week. I started tracking my delivery on-line and on 8/15/02 my furniture was rescheduled for 8/21/02; on 8/19/02 rescheduled for 8/21/02; on 8/19/02 rescheduled for 8/26/02; on 8/21/02 rescheduled for 8/26/02; and finally on 8/26/02 rescheduled for 8/27/02. On 8/26 the driver called and said he would be in K.C. the follwing day, re-verified my address and that was it. Said he would call when he was within 1 hour away. He called the next day and said he would be at my address (which was going to be a storage unit) within 2 hours. He told me my bill was $3,416.00. I asked why the price was over $1,000 more than quoted and he said because the load weighed more than estimated. I remember the driver at the time of pickup saying that the weigh station was closed and it would get weighed later, and I assumed that since I wasn't notified of any change that the estimate was accurate. Since I didn't have the whole amount, my furniture was returned to Arlington Hts., IL. I later found out that Boyer Rosene Moving & Storage, not Bekins was delivering my furniture. So it was returned to their storage facility in IL. I guess they were trying to do be a favor when after trying to come up with over $3,000 for a year, that I start sending in monthly payments. I started that in about 4/03. My car engine seized that same month and since I still owed quite a bit on the loan, I decided to file a Ch 13. My attorney said I had to list all my debts so Bekins was included. I had managed to pay Bekins $500 in that time after having found a F/T job permanent job a year after I got back to K.C. My attorney said there was a way I could get my furniture back so I didn't make any more payments. Well after a couple of months, my hopes were crushed when the attorney informed me that after some research, it wouldn't be possible. Bekins did not file a claim either. This was in 11/03. I have been trying to find a way to come up with the money (which is now $5,000 because of storage charges) and is hard when you have other expenses to take care of. Any money I would earn if I got another job would go toward the CH 13. I can't get a loan because of the CH 13. I tried to file a claim with Bekins and was told nothing could be done until my furniture was delivered. That would have trimmed the bill tremendously and I would have probably only owed $1,000. I am physically and emotionally exhausted trying to stay optimistic. My daughter and I have been sleeping on air mattresses and paying for an empty apt. for almost a year now. She just graduated from HS last month and wants her things. Our whole life history is in that warehouse. It's feels like I've lost everthing but in reality my furniture is being held hostage. I physically and mentally cannot move on to take care of other things in my life until I have this nightmare taken care of. By the way, I found this website from info contained in an article my friend in San Diego faxed to me in People Mag. 6/21/04 issue titled "Taken for a Ride". Thanks for listening and allowing me to vent. Keep up the good work informing consumers. I only wish I had known about this website before I moved. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks again.

Diane
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Location: Los Angeles

Re: Advice Please!!

Postby Diane » Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:37 am

vcobbs wrote:I tried to file a claim with Bekins and was told nothing could be done until my furniture was delivered. That would have trimmed the bill tremendously and I would have probably only owed $1,000.

Could you explain what this means, please? What kind of claim would you be filing with Bekins?

IMP
Posts: 1034
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:36 pm

Re: Advice Please!!

Postby IMP » Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:08 am

My best guess is that he is talking about a delay claim.

By the way - Boyer Rosene is an agent for Bekins Van Lines. The van line system has been loosely described throughout the pages of this forum, but this is another example of your thinking you are hiring a van line, when in fact, Boyer-Rosene, the agent, owns the physical aspect of the business, including the warehouse and the receivable as well.

My heart goes out to you and your daughter.

vcobbs
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:18 pm

Re: Advice Please!!

Postby vcobbs » Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:35 am

Yes, a delay claim is what I was referring to.

Michael
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Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Advice Please!!

Postby Michael » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:37 am

vcobbs,

My fiorst question is, what type of estimate did you recieve from Bekins?

Was it a non binding, a binding, or a binding not to exceed??

If it was binding or binding not to exceed, then they are not entitled to the overage of charges if at the time of load they did not protest your move. What that means, is if the driver comes out to load you (in this case it sounds like the local agent picked you up to take you to storage) at that point, he must have asked for you to sign an addendum agreeing to pay for the excess weight, once the shipment was weighed, if there was excess weight. If he did not do this, then they agreed to pick your goods up as is and take you to destination as promised.

If your quote was non binding, then yes you are obligated to pay the entire bill. Although, even back in 2002 you were only obligated to pay 110% at time of delivery with the remaining portion due no later then 30 days after invoice.

And yes, most companies will not process claims, especially COD, if they have not recieved their money.

Best of luck,
Michael
************************************

Forget yourself for others and the others will never forget

Diane
Posts: 15824
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:18 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Advice Please!!

Postby Diane » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:43 am

Vcobbs, I gather that the Bekins agent in San Diego didn't do an in-home survey but simply asked you to describe what you had over the phone. Therefore the estimate must have been nonbinding. Even in 2002, I believe, the shipment should have been delivered to you for 110% of the nonbinding estimate--is that right, Tim?

Anyway, I would guess that you might wait a long time for Bekins to pay on the delay claim (I assume that the van line would be paying this and maybe doing a chargeback to the San Diego agent?) whereas Boyer-Rosene (the destination agent) is requiring $5,000 up front for you to get your things. What a Catch-22.

vcobbs
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:18 pm

Re: Advice Please!!

Postby vcobbs » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:57 am

I don't have the papers in front of me but, there was no in-home survey. My furniture was in a storage unit I was renting and I gave a desription of what was there. I did not sign any addendum agreeing to pay for excess weight. Also, I might add I was not given any pamphlet that I've read others were given at the time of pickup...And that's Ms. Cobbs! :D Diane, that's what I thought...catch-22.

Michael
Posts: 3255
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:55 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Advice Please!!

Postby Michael » Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:08 am

Ms. Cobb,

Wel then that probably means you had a non binding, which means you agree to pay for your actual weight and services. Even at 110%, but by now, I am sure they are charging you for storage?

Sorry about your predicament.
Michael
************************************

Forget yourself for others and the others will never forget

Diane
Posts: 15824
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:18 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Advice Please!!

Postby Diane » Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:10 am

On what basis did the attorney tell you originally that you could get your things delivered?

vcobbs
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:18 pm

Re: Advice Please!!

Postby vcobbs » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:34 am

Yes, the $5,000 includes storage at this point. I'm not exactly sure what the basis was, he told me that he was going to do some research and that he thought if the amount of the contents were (the legal term escapes me right now) valued lower that what the claim was, Bekins would file their proof of claim and get paid that way. The attorney later told me that since this was ongoing before I filed the CH 13 that at the time (Nov. 2003) it probably would not work and by law since they have my furniture they can hold it until they get payment. I did not ask at the time what law he was referring to. Of course it did not work because Bekins did not file a proof of claim.

IMP
Posts: 1034
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:36 pm

Re: Advice Please!!

Postby IMP » Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:03 pm

The Illinois Movers & Warehouseman's Association (I think that's what it's called) which has to do with tariffs there, also has regulations on how long they have to store it without beind paid before they can sell your belongings at auction to recover their costs. They are required to give you notice when this is going to happen - so you need to be sure that they always have a correct address for you, and when that sale occurs you can go and buy back what you really want and maybe cheaply?

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twalker
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Re: Advice Please!!

Postby twalker » Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:57 pm

You should have received a written estimate with a price for your move on it. Did you receive one? If it was for $2,300 then you should have not had to pay more than $2,530 (110% of the original estimate) at the time of delivery. If the company is telling you that this is only a recent change then that is B.S.; The FMCSA changed the Rights and Responsibilities When You Move booklet to reflect that this year, but the 110% rule has been that way in Title 49 for years - certainly when your move took place.

There has been a lot that has happened since your move though, and I don't know what kind of effect all of that may have on your options. This is definitely a question for a good transportation attorney, and unfortunately beyond the scope of advice that I can offer.

Tim Walker
MovingScam.com

blue
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Location: USA

Re: Advice Please!!

Postby blue » Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:05 pm

Vcobbs, the driver was only entitled to collect 110% of the estimate at the time of delivery, with the balance due within 30 days. I'm sure he didn't mention that fact, but did you have or would you have been able to pay the 110%??

Tim, does this not sound a lot like another case that's been in the news recently?

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twalker
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Re: Advice Please!!

Postby twalker » Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:33 pm

Blue,

You're right, but the Mayflower case had a few different circumstances (I had to have a trusted friend clear this up for me). Bekins refused to deliver for the original estimated amount because the driver said that the weight was more, not because of any additional services needed at destination. Therefore even by AMSA's own tortured definition of what the 110% rule requires, they should have delivered for no more than 110% of the original estimated cost and billed Vcobbs for the remainder. If Vcobbs was able and willing to pay that amount (110% of the original estimate) at delivery then Vcobbs shouldn't be liable for any of the storage fees since it was Bekins that breached the contract (late delivery, and breaking the 110% rule). The storage can't be attributed to any action on the part of Vcobbs.

Tim Walker
MovingScam.com

P.S. - I hope that it is clear that even if additional services are needed, a consumer is required to pay no more than 100% of a binding estimate, or no more than 110% of a non-binding estimate on the date of delivery. Anything over that amount is to be billed to the consumer no less than 30 days after delivery.

vcobbs
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Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:18 pm

Re: Advice Please!!

Postby vcobbs » Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:24 am

Blue, TWalker:

I am furious! :twisted: I did have the amount quoted at the time of delivery and would have gone to the ATM and withdrawn $250 (I believe that would have been 110%). That's absoulutely true, it was because my furniture was never weighed until whenever, not at the time it was picked up.


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