New Jersey to FL

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jpd

New Jersey to FL

Postby jpd » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:46 pm

I have been reading the posts on this site in preparation for my move from NJ to FL and I have a few questions:

1.) What does self-haul mean?
2.) What does GNTE (Option C) mean?
3.) What is the Total Price Guarantee used by Allied?
4.) What are discount percentages? I thought that movers had to use their published tariffs.
5.) Should I research the companies even if they got good reviews or can I just get estimates from the ones that were given good reviews? One of the companies that got a favorable review was also recommended by my realtor.

Thank you.

Diane
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Location: Los Angeles

Re: New Jersey to FL

Postby Diane » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:53 pm

Hi - with reference to numbers 2 and 3, I am re-posting this post that I made some time ago. It contains the answers to your questions.
Because the major van lines use various terms for Nonbinding, Binding, and Binding Not to Exceed/Guaranteed Not to Exceed estimates, I decided to make a list of those terms to help people understand them better. I will add to this list as I learn more. (The terms "Binding Not to Exceed" and "Guaranteed Not to Exceed" mean the same thing—your cost can go down if your weight is less than the estimate, but cannot go up if your weight is more. This is generally considered the best type of estimate for consumers to have. A Binding estimate where your cost is fixed regardless of the weight is next best.)

Note these important posts about estimates by two people employed in the legitimate moving industry:
11/18/04 - The "Not to Exceed" quote offered by any van line should be the first choice of any customer planning a move of any kind. - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2966

blue wrote:11/26/04 - Never use a non-binding quote if you don't have to. -
http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2989


VAN LINE TERMS FOR NONBINDING, BINDING, & BINDING NOT TO EXCEED ESTIMATES

1. Allied –

NonbindingNonbinding

Binding - TPG (Total Price Guarantee). I have also seen the terms "Guaranteed Price Pledge" and "Total Guaranteed Price" used in Allied’s paperwork and they both mean the same as TPG. In other words, both terms refer to Binding estimates.

Binding Not to Exceed - TPG with GRR (Guaranteed Rate Reduction)

The TPG with GRR is the equivalent of a Binding Not to Exceed / Guaranteed Not to Exceed estimate, as noted above. An Allied sales rep has provided more information about it:
PMueller wrote:12/2/05 - The TPG/GRR estimate also indicates the rate per hundred pounds of the reduction on the TPG/GRR estimate that is provided so the consumer can see in advance what reduction will be made per each one hundred pounds. . . . The driver is aware when arriving to load a shipment that it is a TPG/GRR and that he must get the tare [empty] weight just prior to loading and immediately receive his gross weight after loading, at which time the agency is then able to adivse the customer of the difference in weight and price if any. If packing is performed by the agency, it is also included in the TPG/GRR. Which means the customer may have many possibilities for reductions, i.e. packing reduction and weight reduction, just packing reduction with no weight reduction, just weight reduction with no packing reduction. - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtop ... 8041#48041

Another person (apparently an Allied rep) posted the following about the relationship between a TPG estimate and the 400N tariff:
8/29/04 - It should be very easy to convert a TPG price to a 400N. The TPG tarriff is a wholesale pricing system. Allied has a set price for the moving costs and the booking agent . . . sets their own "Service Management Fee" (SMF) and packing rates. In your case, [the agent] simply should adjust their SMF to mirror the 400 N cost. They should offer you the same NTE price as the TPG price. - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtop ... 0055#20055

-------------------------------------------------

2. Atlas –

NonbindingNonbinding

BindingBinding

Binding Not to Exceed - APP (Assured Price Protection) or TAPP (Total Assured Price Protection)
-------------------------------------------------

3. North American –

Nonbinding - NSO (Name Shipper Option)

Here is an explanation by a NAVL employee:
Nancy wrote:9/2/04 - Basically saying that the customer/shipper has the option to ship more or less than was estimated. We actually sell this contract a lot when people just aren't sure or specific on what items they are moving. They agree to pay 110% to get delivery, and are ultimately responsible for all actual weights and services on their move. They just do not have to pay more than 110% to get delivered. We invoice later. - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2520


Binding - GP (Guaranteed Price) I have also seen the term “Binding Price Proposal” used for a Binding quote. - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3992

Binding Not to Exceed - GNTE

NOTE: The above categories hold when a North American move is being quoted using the 400N tariff. In 2006, the van line introduced a different pricing structure similar to Allied's TPG. Under this "Pricelock" structure, the terms used for the various categories are as follows.

Nonbinding - Nonbinding

Binding - Pricelock

Binding Not to Exceed - Pricelock with GRR (Guaranteed Rate Reduction)
-------------------------------------------------

4. Paul Arpin –

Nonbinding - Nonbinding

Binding - Binding

Binding Not to Exceed - Accu-Quote

http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtop ... 2267#52267
-------------------------------------------------

5. Unigroup (United and Mayflower) –

Nonbinding - Option A

Binding - Option B

Binding Not to Exceed - Option C. I have also seen this called a “Comparison” estimate, i.e. the actual weight is compared with the estimated weight and the customer pays the amount for the lower weight. One person reported that her Mayflower agent called it a "Binding or Less" estimate - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6590 Another person said that her United paperwork called it a "Bound Estimate -- Option C Comparison" - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7114
-------------------------------------------------

6. Wheaton -

Nonbinding - Total Non-Binding [Cost]. I have also seen the term "Estimated Cost of Service" used. Note that it is somewhat of a misnomer to call it a "Total Non-Binding [Cost]" because the final total cost can't possibly be known on a Nonbinding estimate.

Binding - Total Firm Binding [Cost]

Binding Not to Exceed - Total Option Binding [Cost]

See http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5886 and http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6439 for a discussion of these terms. Wheaton asks customers to actually write in the cost for the type of estimate they were given on the contract so there is no possibility of a misunderstanding, and I think this is a good idea.

With regard to question 5, I think in NJ we know enough from the reviews that you probably wouldn't have to do too much more research on the various companies. In other words, it's pretty clear which the better ones are. However, it's always good to ask around to see what friends and neighbors and co-workers say.
Diane
Check out domestic companies on this thread. Click here for a detailed, authoritative article on international moving.

MusicMom
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Re: New Jersey to FL

Postby MusicMom » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:53 pm

1.) What does self-haul mean?
Self-haul is when a van line agent carries the load the entire way themselves, under their own license and insurance, instead of putting it into the van line system.
2.) What does GNTE (Option C) mean?
Guranteed Not To Exceed. This is best for consumers. It sets a cap (the "Not To Exceed" part that your price cannot go over, nomatter wht the actual weight, but if the actual weight is lower, you pay the lower price. Estimators will often bump the weight up a bit to give themselves a buffer. You still win.
3.) What is the Total Price Guarantee used by Allied?
This is their term for a flat, Binding Price, what the bill will be regardless of the actual weight. Sometiems the load is not even weighed, because it would not change anything.
4.) What are discount percentages? I thought that movers had to use their published tariffs.
Discounts vary from company to company, time of year, and other factors, and might be hovering in the 60's right now (don't quote me, I'm not a pro). You will never find a mover charging full tarriff price for anything.
5.) Should I research the companies even if they got good reviews or can I just get estimates from the ones that were given good reviews? One of the companies that got a favorable review was also recommended by my realtor.
Yes. Not saying this is the case with your guys, but the reviews you read could be fake and you later find out they have a lot of complaints, or you could find that the movers do poorly on self-hauls but great on vanline hauls, or other things. See how they respond to the complaints they do have.

Realtors are a great judge of service comapnies related to relocation. You know if someone -a mover, plumber, painter, etc- does poorly for a client, they will never get referrals from that realtor instead, and possibly that realtor's coworkers, friends, or neighbors.

MusicMom
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Re: New Jersey to FL

Postby MusicMom » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:54 pm

Tag team strikes again.

Diane
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Location: Los Angeles

Re: New Jersey to FL

Postby Diane » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:59 pm

:wink: Well, at least we disagreed on #5. I was thinking that he/she had probably read the Superlist, and that's what I was responding to.

MusicMom
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Location: DC Metro

Re: New Jersey to FL

Postby MusicMom » Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:13 pm

Yeah, but of all the things to disagree on, that's relatively harmless... :wink:

jpd

Re: New Jersey to FL

Postby jpd » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:26 am

1.) When should I request the GNTE? When I make the appointment for an estimate or when they come to my house?
2.) Is there a charge for the GNTE estimate?

farrah7031
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Re: New Jersey to FL

Postby farrah7031 » Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:20 am

You should request it when they come to do an in home estimate. The in home estimates should be no charge.

jpd

Re: New Jersey to FL

Postby jpd » Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:28 am

I plan on getting estimates from the following companies, primarialy based on the reviews they got on this site and being on the Superlist. All Brunswick was also on a list of recommended movers that I got from my Realtor's company.

Wade Odell Wade
University Van Lines
All Brunswick

It seems to me that these companies have been well researched by people moving as well as others on this site. Does it make sense to still do my own research?

Thank you.

Jim
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:42 pm
Location: Sunny Southern California

Re: New Jersey to FL

Postby Jim » Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:35 am

jpd, it's still good to do your own research, however much of the research you will conduct will likely be from the same sources the volunteers have already done. If you run into information contradicting what you find through your research, then please come back here and let's find out why the discrepancy exists....
It's Sunny Somewhere In The World

PMueller
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Location: Florida (Tampa Bay area)

Re: New Jersey to FL

Postby PMueller » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:47 pm

MusicMom wrote:1.) What does self-haul mean?
Self-haul is when a van line agent carries the load the entire way themselves, under their own license and insurance, instead of putting it into the van line system.


Actually, if an agent is self hauling and it is crossing state lines, the van lines insurance and license is still applicable.

Diane gave a great summary in another post that I'm listing below also for a definition on self haul.

Diane wrote:A small correction:- a self-haul means that the company that books the move will also haul the move using its own truck and driver. People are more likely to get a self-haul if the booking/origin agent is an office of a very large van line agent such as Chipman, Armstrong, or Berger OR if the move is relatively short - usually less than 500 miles.

If a shipment is released to the van line for hauling, the customer may still have the same truck and driver throughout, but that is not considered a self-haul because the booking/origin agent is not supplying the truck and driver. The van line is supplying the truck and driver from its pool of trucks and drivers (all of whom work for other agents of the same van line).

Providing that the drivers for a particular booking/origin agent are good, it is usually safer to have a self-haul by those drivers than a haul by a driver supplied through the van line. Cases reported here show that there can be considerable variation in quality among the van line drivers, and the booking/origin agent loses almost all control of quality when the move goes into the van line system.
"Amateurs practice until they get it right. Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong."

PMueller
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Re: New Jersey to FL

Postby PMueller » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:52 pm

jpd wrote:1.) When should I request the GNTE? When I make the appointment for an estimate or when they come to my house?
2.) Is there a charge for the GNTE estimate?


1. I personally don't think you should have to request one, the rep should be advising you on the type of estimates and discussing a GNTE indicating that from a consumer's need it is the best available. However, definately let them know you want one, if they do not discuss the option with you.

2. There is no charge for this type of estimate. Occasionally, you will find some reps increase your weight slightly to cover a few things, but usually and if they have done a thorough survey with you the GNTE amount should be the same.
"Amateurs practice until they get it right. Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong."

MusicMom
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Re: New Jersey to FL

Postby MusicMom » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:06 pm

Yep, Diane's explanation is better than mine. Thanks, PMueller!

Diane
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Location: Los Angeles

Re: New Jersey to FL

Postby Diane » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:50 pm

I don't know that it's better, but I just want to stress something else that Pam mentioned. It has taken me so long to understand these things that I guess I'm anxious to spread around what I've finally understood, maybe to reinforce it in my own mind.

An agent doing a self-haul and an agent doing a move under its own authority are two separate things. As Pam said, an agent can self-haul and still be doing a move under the van line's authority if it's an interstate move. In fact, this is extremely common.

However, sometimes an agent has interstate authority of its own and in that case it can do a self-hauled interstate move under its own authority if it wants to. Companies are not required to give up their own interstate licensing authority when they become van line agents.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. (This is a detail that wouldn't matter to most customers, by the way.)

jpd

Re: New Jersey to FL

Postby jpd » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:33 pm

I have gotten 3 estimates from University Van Lines, JD Carton, and All Brunswick Van Lines.

All Brunswick gave a a Total Option Binding Estimate, JD Carton gave me a total Not-To-Exceed estimate, and University Van Lines gave me an Assured Price Protection Estimate. These are all equivalent to GNTE, correct?

I did not get All Brunswick's MC number, however, I got the DOT numbers from all 3 as well the MC number from the other two. I followed Tim's doc and all 3 check out OK.

JD Carton and University Van Lines say that they will self-haul and All Brunswick will self haul if they have a truck going down to FL.

Is there anything else I sould verify before selecting a company?

Thank you.


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