NYC to Michigan end of June

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NYCtoAA
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Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:01 pm

NYC to Michigan end of June

Postby NYCtoAA » Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:01 pm

Hello everybody. I was looking for advice/comments on the following quotes (at home estimates) I have received for a move from a 1-bedroom elevator building apartment in NYC (Manhattan) to Ann Arbor, Michigan (620 miles) at the end of June (on a weekday).

DAHILL (agent of MAYFLOWER):
Calculated weight: 3,793 lbs. (584 cubic feet)
Weight used for estimate: 4,000 lbs.
Shuttle service into Manhattan: $642
Total estimate: $3,730
(non-binding because it was more than 60 days, however the estimator said that he could provide me with a very similar GNTE)

LIFFEY (agent of ALLIED):
Weight: N/A (was not given in the estimate)
Shuttle service into Manhattan: $950
Total estimate: $3,870
(total guaranteed price)

LIBERTY (agent of UNITED):
Calculated weight: 3,226 lbs. (445 cubic feet)
Weight used for estimate: 3,500 lbs.
Shuttle service into Manhattan: $593
Total estimate: $3,190
(total not to exceed )

FLATRATE (independent):
I used them to move the EXACT same stuff in NYC within a couple of blocks, so their estimate is based on the actual inventory list from before.
Total estimate: $2,870
(total guaranteed price)

Who do you think I should use? I liked the Dahill guy the best, but the Liberty guy gave me a good price.

My question is this: if the Liberty estimator is way off on the weight (he came in at 500 lbs. lower than Dahill) but it is a GNTE (he said "total not to exceed" is that the same as guaranteed not to exceed?) then what happens? I am only required to pay 110% of the estimate at delivery, right? Then I dispute the weight with United? Or are they going to have to stick with their initial quoted price if the weight ends up being closer to 4,000 lbs?

MusicMom
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Re: NYC to Michigan end of June

Postby MusicMom » Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:04 pm

I wouldn't use Flat Rate for a long distance move. And since they estimate differently, you can't even compare them with the others. Apples and oranges.

Diane
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Location: Los Angeles

Re: NYC to Michigan end of June

Postby Diane » Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:15 pm

Chances are that you won't have to pay more than the GNTE estimate with Liberty, since you have a GNTE quote. But what about quality? Please read what has been said here about the company:
http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtop ... 1637#61637

Personally I would go with Dahill. There's a good chance that you will pay less than the GNTE estimate, once you get it. You'll probably pay about $60 less for every 100 pounds less weight, bringing the Dahill and Liberty price closer together.
Diane
Check out domestic companies on this thread. Click here for a detailed, authoritative article on international moving.

NYCtoAA
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Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:01 pm

Re: NYC to Michigan end of June

Postby NYCtoAA » Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:17 pm

Thanks for the advice. I think I am going to go with Dahill. The estimator has to come back anyway so maybe I will get him to lower the weight estimate.

I will also get an estimate from All Star Moving & Storage (an independent agent in Brooklyn).

As an aside, I originally had Meyer's scheduled to come to my place for an estimate. They ended up calling me three times to schedule an appointment (when I already had one set up with them) including one time when the woman on the phone said "I am calling to schedule an estimate for your move to Miami..." When I told her I wasn't moving to Miami she said: "Err.... sorry... Minnesota!" Anyway, I told her I was going to Michigan and that their estimator was already scheduled for the day after! The estimator called the next day saying he would be at my place in half an hour. After half an hour he called to say he is outside my building. I went out to meet him, but there was nobody there. I called him back and after insisting that he was right in front of my apartment (I asked him to wave his hands and I still couldn't see anyone), I asked him to give me the address where my apartment building was that he was standing in front of. He said "blah blah avenue, Brooklyn!" Needless to say, when they called to reschedule the estimate I declined their services. They knew neither where I was moving from nor where I was moving to!!!

Diane
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Location: Los Angeles

Re: NYC to Michigan end of June

Postby Diane » Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:04 pm

Oh my. This confirms what has been said here about Meyer's.

All Star is very good but they don't normally go as far as Michigan for a smallish load like yours. Did you try getting a quote from Moovers or Delancey Street-NY? They might be lower than Dahill and still reliable.

NYCtoAA
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Re: NYC to Michigan end of June

Postby NYCtoAA » Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:19 am

UPDATE:

I got a quote from All Star Moving & Storage: $3577, slightly higher than the Dahill high-end based on weight quote. The All Star quote is supposed to be a GNTE (plus Tolls) and they did it based on an hourly rate for their crew to load and unload so it can go up and down based on the amount of time they take (I guess I can help them to make it go faster). I like the fact that with All Star my stuff will stay in the same truck and not be moved around and they also said that they will probably deliver within 2 days and not the 3-9 range I got from Mayflower.

I wanted to go with All Star given their reviews here, the good price, and the speed with which they claim they will deliver. However, I still had some additional questions:

The quote sheet from All Star had "Probable Cost of Services" printed on top which the estimator crossed out and wrote "Guaranteed not to exceed + tolls" by hand. Is this still considered a legally binding GNTE document or should I request something else in writting?

How much will the maximum tolls be? Can I get scammed there?

Are they underestimating the delivery date? Is it possible that they will take a lot longer since they have no binding delivery date (like the large van lines that will then have to pay hotel, etc. if they exceed it)?

The estimator did not give me a R&R pamphlet and instead gave me a NY State "Sumary of Information" booklet. Is this a red flag? Being local, are they not bound by the same rules and regulations as Interstate movers?

Thanks for all your help!

Michael
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Re: NYC to Michigan end of June

Postby Michael » Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:49 pm

Doesnt sound like they are following the current rate tariff like Mayflower.

Your move being interstate, should be charged based on weight. The linehaul cost you see with Mayflower includes the cost to load, unload and tolls. This All Star company seems to be nickle and diming you with the hourly rate charges for loading and unloading and then tolls.

I would pass on them.
Michael
************************************

Forget yourself for others and the others will never forget

farrah7031
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Re: NYC to Michigan end of June

Postby farrah7031 » Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:10 pm

All Star runs on their own tarriff and charges by hour, we found out. It IS legal to do, as long as their tarriff is filed with the state of NY (which it is). It's just a "different" way of doing things.

aubie2
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Location: Alabama

Re: NYC to Michigan end of June

Postby aubie2 » Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:42 pm

farrah7031 wrote:All Star runs on their own tarriff and charges by hour, we found out. It IS legal to do, as long as their tarriff is filed with the state of NY (which it is). It's just a "different" way of doing things.


Even on a move from New York to Michigan?

farrah7031
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Re: NYC to Michigan end of June

Postby farrah7031 » Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:47 pm

Yes I believe so. It's been discussed before. Let me see if I can find the thread.

farrah7031
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Re: NYC to Michigan end of June

Postby farrah7031 » Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:09 pm


Diane
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Location: Los Angeles

Re: NYC to Michigan end of June

Postby Diane » Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:49 pm

NYCtoAA wrote:UPDATE:

I got a quote from All Star Moving & Storage: $3577, slightly higher than the Dahill high-end based on weight quote. The All Star quote is supposed to be a GNTE (plus Tolls) and they did it based on an hourly rate for their crew to load and unload so it can go up and down based on the amount of time they take (I guess I can help them to make it go faster). I like the fact that with All Star my stuff will stay in the same truck and not be moved around and they also said that they will probably deliver within 2 days and not the 3-9 range I got from Mayflower.

I wanted to go with All Star given their reviews here, the good price, and the speed with which they claim they will deliver. However, I still had some additional questions:

The quote sheet from All Star had "Probable Cost of Services" printed on top which the estimator crossed out and wrote "Guaranteed not to exceed + tolls" by hand. Is this still considered a legally binding GNTE document or should I request something else in writting?

How much will the maximum tolls be? Can I get scammed there?

Are they underestimating the delivery date? Is it possible that they will take a lot longer since they have no binding delivery date (like the large van lines that will then have to pay hotel, etc. if they exceed it)?

The estimator did not give me a R&R pamphlet and instead gave me a NY State "Sumary of Information" booklet. Is this a red flag? Being local, are they not bound by the same rules and regulations as Interstate movers?

Thanks for all your help!

I'm surprised that All Star would drive that far - maybe they have another load scheduled for the same truck.

To answer your questions honestly:- All Star is operating in a way that is not quite kosher. They are not supposed to be charging by the hour for a move of this length (although it would have been legal for them to give you a Binding estimate that can't go up or down and not weigh the truck). They ARE supposed to be giving you the YRR booklet. They probably gave you the NY State booklet because they are basically a local/NYC-area mover and that is the booklet they have.

That said, I am positive that they are going to hold to their GNTE price - in other words, they will charge you no more than they have quoted (plus tolls) and they will charge you less than they have quoted if the hours are less. How do I know? Because I know the person running the company and I know that he will not cheat you. I don't know whether this assurance will be enough for you, but there it is.

I'm not positive, but I think that some other NYC-area independent movers like Big John's and Big Apple are probably doing the same type of thing on interstate moves. In other words, I don't think that All Star is the only company that isn't exactly following the letter of the law.

As for the tolls, I know that All Star wouldn't cheat you but if you're concerned, ask them how much the tolls are likely to be, so you can plan.

I understand why you would want to use them given the fact that they have performed so well for people. The "GNTE" they have given you is sufficient without an additional contract, in my opinion, and I think you can trust their estimate of the transit time. You should also be able to avoid the cost of a shuttle with them, since their trucks are fairly small. It all boils down to whether you are willing to overlook a few not-quite-kosher irregularities in order to get a high-quality move.

The one thing I think you should ask about is tipping. Somebody posted that All Star wanted him to guarantee that he would give at least a 10% tip for an interstate move like this. Maybe nothing has been said to you, but I think it's likely that the workers will want something of the kind. You should probably bring it up with the sales rep or owner so you know what you're getting into and there isn't any unpleasantness at the end.

NYCtoAA
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Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:01 pm

Re: NYC to Michigan end of June

Postby NYCtoAA » Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:45 pm

Thanks for all your responses. I have read the threads about the tipping requests from All Star workers and I will ask the estimator and/or the boss at All Star to clarify what his workers expect. I believe it is customary to tip anywhere between 10-15% (maybe 20% for a move entirely in NY - which would also be cheaper). Given the high price of the move I am inclined to tip around 12%. That it already around $420. Am I supposed to tip at the end of the loading up or after they deliver? And if it is not the same crue, are some of the workers going to miss on the tip?

If they start counting the hourly rate from the time they leave the warehouse and they exceed their estimate I am still only required to pay 110% of the GNTE, correct? And, in this case, 110% of the entire quote (including the large transportation cost) or is the limit 110% of their hourly rate (i.e. labor) quote: 3.5 hrs x $150 for 4 men = $525, then x 110% = $577.5, only $52.5 more, right?

Diane
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Location: Los Angeles

Re: NYC to Michigan end of June

Postby Diane » Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:28 am

Hi again - I admire you for going ahead with this move and not stressing about the small irregularities. I think you are making the right decision, because it's worth a lot to have your things delivered by the same truck and driver that pick them up.

Regarding the tip, what All Star has told people in the past is that they prefer that the entire tip be given at the end. But this is something that I think you should discuss with the estimator (I assume it was Nick) or owner (Rich) to be sure. I think your intent to give 12% is generous and 10% would be OK, given the fact that much of the cost of the move is just for driving time on the road.

The 110% rule comes into play only if you have a Nonbinding estimate. Since you have a GNTE (Guaranteed or Binding Not to Exceed) estimate, you will not have to pay more than the amount of that estimate, no matter what. All Star appears to be saying, too, that you will pay less than the estimate if the hours are less. Keep on top of this because I seem to remember a case where the hours were less and the customer didn't get credit for it at first.

Reading the reviews carefully is a good idea because it shows possible areas of misunderstanding. My experience with the owner has been that he is extremely fair and honest and if anything like this DOES happen, he will make it right for you.

NYCtoAA
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Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:01 pm

Re: NYC to Michigan end of June

Postby NYCtoAA » Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:49 am

Thanks Diane!

I don't think the irregularities are that big a deal considering what kind of scams are going on. As long as the company has a good reputation, is insured and licensed for this kind of move (which by all means All Star is), I am fine with it. I think I am going to go ahead with All Star. I will of course come back here and post a review when all is done.


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