oz moving nyc - anyone use it?

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BigLeeCalif
Posts: 4659
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 5:59 pm
Location: Escondido, California

Re: oz moving nyc - anyone use it?

Postby BigLeeCalif » Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:25 pm

I called an agent I work with in NYC... There was actually one that didn't go home at 5pm

I was quoted hourly the following:

rates between 4th and 24th of the month
$100 3 men and van.... $125 for 4 men

rates between 25th and 3rd of the month
$110 3 men and van ... $135 for 4 men

There is a 3 hr min charge with 1 hr drive time
They will do binding not-to-exceed estimates, but only if visually surveyed.

There's not a lot of Mayflower fans here, but this is one of the better ones in NYC...
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt" Mark Twain

June
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:47 pm

Re: oz moving nyc - anyone use it?

Postby June » Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:36 pm

I used OZ five years ago to move a 2 bdrm apt 10 blocks within Manhattan. They were flawless. I packed everything myself. They wrapped the furniture. In one day they moved us from a 4th floor apt to a 17th floor apt (with very slow elevator). Cost about $1200. Good luck.

Tyrone
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 5:18 pm

Re: oz moving nyc - anyone use it?

Postby Tyrone » Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:04 pm

June, it's fascinating that just yesterday you posted a request for a recommendation for a good NYC moving company... I guess you must have forgotten about your excellent prior experience with Oz. :roll: :roll: :roll:
Dominus amotioni capitis e clunibus sum.

June
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:47 pm

Re: oz moving nyc - anyone use it?

Postby June » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:18 pm

Tyrone - I'm investigating a cross country move. I specifically asked for local NY agents of national affiliates. For your information, I checked with OZ. They broker out jobs that go West. Was told "We have a guy with a truck." And they do NOT move West in the winter. For a local NYC move, I'd used OZ again in a heartbeat.

Diane
Posts: 15824
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:18 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: oz moving nyc - anyone use it?

Postby Diane » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:27 pm

June, we tend to be suspicious here because we get so many people making bogus posts who actually work for the dubious companies they are praising. (Check out the recent thread on "A Professional Move" with today's posting by "Lookntomyiz" and others to see one example.) I can see that you're posting from New York City and your story rings true to me. We're just trying to be cautious about accepting testimony that could possibly cause someone else to be scammed. Based on what Tyrone says, this Oz company looks very sketchy to me. However, sometimes dubious companies can do individual moves that are OK, as yours apparently was five years ago.

June
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:47 pm

Re: oz moving nyc - anyone use it?

Postby June » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:38 pm

I understand. I'm suspicious as well. Thanks for the links.

Tyrone
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 5:18 pm

Re: oz moving nyc - anyone use it?

Postby Tyrone » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:51 pm

June,
Oz has NO broker authority from the DOT. They also have NO broker bond on file. Both of these things are absolutely required by federal law in order to "broker out" or subcontract moves, as you reported.

This means that Oz has been operating illegally and in flagrant violation of federal law.

Plus their driver out-of-service rating is triple the national average.

So much for military precision.
Dominus amotioni capitis e clunibus sum.

June
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:47 pm

Re: oz moving nyc - anyone use it?

Postby June » Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:02 pm

Yes, thank you Tyrone, red ink and all. That's precisely why I am NOT considering OZ for a cross country moving fun fest.

guest

Re: oz moving nyc - anyone use it?

Postby guest » Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:21 am

Umm, ok, why is that relevant? I think that's a plus that he has that on his storefront, not a minus...

I just called NYDOT - they are all liscenced and have only 1 complaint in the last 12 months.

I called FMCSA's Safety Violation and Consumer Complaints - they have no complaints on file.

I'm going to contact the huge pile of references they gave me and see what I hear.





"Avi has painted the face of his storefront HQ in red, white and blue colors and stated that "What we need to remember is that not all Islamic and Arab born people are terrorists".

MusicMom
Posts: 19323
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:51 am
Location: DC Metro

Re: oz moving nyc - anyone use it?

Postby MusicMom » Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:10 am

Let us know what you find from the references, Guest. It would be nice if a consumer could show us that companies are good, instead of us finding piles of bad info on them.

Tyrone
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 5:18 pm

Re: oz moving nyc - anyone use it?

Postby Tyrone » Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:57 pm

Good question, Guest. To answer your question regarding relevance, the answer is:

It is extremely common for foreign-owned scam moving companies to adopt a false "patriotic" theme and assume a very pro-American name, image, etc. This is an intentional ruse intended to gain the trust of unsuspecting American citizens who are then scammed royally.

If you spend some time scanning through the names and logos of the various blacklisted companies, you will definitely recognize the pattern that I am talking about.
Dominus amotioni capitis e clunibus sum.

Omri

Re: oz moving nyc - anyone use it?

Postby Omri » Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:25 pm

Hey Tyrone,
Well here again, I can see that you found it extremely important to post the fact that this owner has served in the IDF. You repeated it 3 times! 3 Times! You must find it so minor and not important and just one of the small flags that you post. Seems like you have an issue.
Still waiting for the statement.

Tyrone
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 5:18 pm

Re: oz moving nyc - anyone use it?

Postby Tyrone » Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:35 pm

Omri, we're still waiting for you to demonstrate good faith by answering the direct questions that we have asked you. Until then we can only assume that your intention is to post inflammatory lies rather than foment intelligent discourse.

As stated and documented in several other places, an extremely high percentage of the scammers come here directly after completing terms in the IDF. So therefore it is relevant. If you took the time to do research and read posts rather than merely spitting out garbage then you would know that.
Dominus amotioni capitis e clunibus sum.

Omri

!

Postby Omri » Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:01 am

Dear Tyrone,
Well I have done my homework.
Here are my answers:
Yes it is true, most of the people arrested by the FBI were Israelis.
Yes it is also true that the amount of Israeli owners of moving companies is way beyond the percentage of Israelis in the US.
This also means that there are a large amount of Israeli owned, honest moving companies. True up till here?
I again am simply stating that it is wrong to judge everyone due to some bad apples in the bunch. I don't think that it should be one of your criteria and you should not recommend people to pay attention to this.
The current consumer should be aware of this because he/she might not have read the former notes.
I am not familiar with this company yet if he is an owner he most likely is a legal US taxpaying citizen. Should his background/nationality make a difference?
All US citizens are supposed to be equal! They should not be flagged or suspected because of this aspect.
I agree, check the DOT, check the company name, check the BBB, check anything else but NOT THE NATIONALITY!!!!!!
By the way, please answer my question:
Why were there repeated attempts to block my computer from this community message board? Are you not comfortable dealing with my opinion? I would be glad to continue this dialogue on a seperate thread yet you have deleted all the new ones I started.

Tyrone
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 5:18 pm

Re: oz moving nyc - anyone use it?

Postby Tyrone » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:29 am

To answer your question, your IP address was blocked because you repeatedly refused to bring any intelligent discussion to the table even after we practically BEGGED you to. Rather, you chose to sling mud and insisted on making baseless accusations which were born of your own preconceived notions, with no roots in the actual facts. Most importantly, you continually demonstrated an unwillingness to educate yourself about the facts so that you would be able to speak out of knowledge instead of ignorance. Now that you have finally started to speak intelligently let's hope that you continue to take the path of knowledge.

Now, moving forward...
It's good that we see eye to eye up until a point. Now you are beginning to understand. I assure you, the more investigation you do, the more you will come to understand things from our perspective.

You made the following statement:

This also means that there are a large amount of Israeli owned, honest moving companies


Now don't take what I am about to say out of context; please pay close attention.

THERE MAY -- OR MAY NOT -- BE "A LARGE AMOUNT OF ISRAELI OWNED, HONEST MOVING COMPANIES" out there.

Please understand that due to the nature of this site as a portal for topics related to moving scams, by very definition, most of the companies that come to our attention are scam companies. Note: I did not say that most of the ISRAELI companies that come to our attention are scam companies. I said that most of the companies, PERIOD that come to our attention are scammers. Therefore, it is not surprising that I have not yet seen any evidence that would support your claim.

Therefore, it is now time for you to do some more homework. In this forum we deal with facts, not opinions. I understand very well that your statement "there are a large amount of Israeli owned, honest moving companies" is your strong opinion. I would very much like to believe that also. Please provide some documentation to support your opinion. Then we could agree that is it fact.

I will re-state something I just said. I would VERY MUCH like to agree with your statement. In fact, I WILL go so far as to say that I DO AGREE with your statement, if you are talking about Israeli owned moving companies that are physically located in Israel. I am certain that movers who live and reside in Israel are honest, because we all know that the law enforcement authorities over there would not tolerate the crap we allow here. Not for one half of one second could a mover DREAM of pulling the classic scam back in Israel because they would certainly face immediate and severe consequences.

Unfortunately, in this forum we are primarily concerned with what happens in America. So now the burden is on YOU to back up your opinion with facts. There were about 50 company names that appeared on the FBI list of indicted Israeli moving companies. I think that it is reasonable to continue looking at this from the point of statistics. Here's how you can do it:

I originally said that the statistical majority of scam moving companies are Israeli owned. That means 51 percent or more. Since I provided you with 50 Israeli owned scam companies, it should be an easy matter for YOU to provide ME with the names, owner's names, street addresses, phone numbers, and DOT/MC numbers of 50 Israeli owned legitimate moving companies.

To make this even easier for you we will give a very loose definition of "legitimate". We will include only 5 criteria:

#1) Each company must have both Common Carrier and Contract Carrier authority from the FMCSA. along with the required BI/PD and Cargo insurance. (You can verify this for each company by checking their record on www.safersys.org) The company must not have its household goods carrier authority in a status of "REVOKED". This represents the bare minimum for an interstate moving company to be operating legally.

#2) Each company must be members of the AMSA (American Moving and Storage Association) which demonstrates acceptance of standardized tariffs for pricing, and adherence to AMSA codes of conduct.

#3) Each company must not be blacklisted on this site, or at MovingAdvocateTeam.com (blacklisted companies are proven, documented scammers).

#4) Each comapny must have been operating continually under the same corporate name for five (5) years or more.

#5) Each company must NOT be mere a broker or a freight forwarder. They must be an actual mover with their own vehicles, equipment and warehouse, not just a P.O. box for an address.

Remember, opnions are not facts unless they can be backed up with independent documentation. Since you are claiming that the vast majority of Israeli owned movers are legitimate, it should be a piece of cake for you to provide me with the name of one legitimate mover to match the name of each scam mover I gave you.

You see, Omri, you did not accept anything I said at face value, but instead you forced me to provide you with documentation. I have no problem with that and I feel that it makes for a healthy debate. The thing is, you must be willing to submit to the same standards for yourself that you demand from others. Therefore I expect your next post to contain the 50 companies. (It might be a while before we hear from you). If you refuse to comply, it would prove that you are not looking for a debate, merely an argument. If so then you have come to the wrong place because we won't tolerate that.

What's more, should you actually be able to come up with the 50 companies (after all, that works out to only ONE company per state), not only will I retract my previous statements, I will eat my gdamned hat.

To help you remain focused on the matter at hand, we will delete any further posts you make until such as time as you provide us with the names of the 50 companies, or until you post an admission that after doing extensive research you could not find 50 legitimate Israeli owned companies in the entire United States. Good luck and I sincerely hope that you are successfull in your quest!
Dominus amotioni capitis e clunibus sum.


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