IN RESPONSE TO Dahill / Mayflower move from NYC to Denver

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aspena
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Re: IN RESPONSE TO Dahill / Mayflower move from NYC to Denver

Postby aspena » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:22 pm

My shipment has apparently still not left NYC. Anyone w/ access to the records have any idea what is going on?

Thanks,

BigLeeCalif
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Re: IN RESPONSE TO Dahill / Mayflower move from NYC to Denver

Postby BigLeeCalif » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:48 pm

Send me a reminder to work tomorrow, and I will try to hook you up with the General Manager of Dahill.

Seems like no one wants to take ownership of this problem.
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt" Mark Twain

aspena
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Re: IN RESPONSE TO Dahill / Mayflower move from NYC to Denver

Postby aspena » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:36 am

Final update - my shipment arrived 07/31/07, or roughly 5 weeks after shipment was picked up in NYC.

Thanks to BigLee & Archie for their help. Convinced my things would not have arrived without their help.

farrah7031
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Re: IN RESPONSE TO Dahill / Mayflower move from NYC to Denver

Postby farrah7031 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:55 am

Can you tell us what Dahill's response was why it took so long? What are they doing for you because of this?

BigLeeCalif
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Re: IN RESPONSE TO Dahill / Mayflower move from NYC to Denver

Postby BigLeeCalif » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:57 pm

I can answer that one farrah, since I dealt with the Unigroup system.

All the fault wasn't Dahill. Mayflower dropped the ball in getting the shipment picked up. Dahill had no liftvans to containerize the shipment, and Mayflower wasn't helpful in getting any to them, although Dahill should have gone out and bought some on their own, and got the shipment going. Used liftvans in California go for $50, and I can't imagine the price being higher in New York.

So for lack of 2 $50 containers, Patrick's shipment was a month late.

Hopefully Dahill and Mayflower will make sure to learn from this shipment and avoid any recurrences.

Diane spoke directly with Dahill, while Archie and I checked internal information within the system.
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt" Mark Twain

Diane
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Re: IN RESPONSE TO Dahill / Mayflower move from NYC to Denver

Postby Diane » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:40 am

From what Patrick posted here, his small shipment was picked up in NYC on June 21 and delivered in Denver on July 31. That means that it was in Dahill's warehouse waiting for pickup by a van line driver from June 21 to approximately July 25, or five weeks. That is the longest delay with a reputable moving company that I have ever seen described on this website.

As Lee says, it seems as if both the van line (more so) and Dahill (less so) dropped the ball on this one. The van line didn't have enough drivers and repeatedly failed to pick up Patrick's small shipment. As industry people have posted here about other situations, the van line may have regarded it as having lower priority than a larger shipment made up of a customer's entire possessions or a shipment that was a better-paying "account" move. Dahill also wasn't proactive about shipping it via liftvan.

Dispatchers are insanely busy in the summer and this shipment could have fallen through the cracks. To its credit, the van line did give Patrick compensation of (he says) $400 even though it didn't have to because his shipment was too small. However, this case is yet another reminder that in the van line system, responsibility for moves is divided. There is much less chance of delay if the truck and driver that pick up a shipment are the same truck and driver that deliver it.

It should probably also be noted that we don't hear much about the success stories on this website. A former Mayflower driver ("coolgabe") posted here recently that in the summer, he delivered about 8-10% of his shipments beyond the last day of the delivery spread - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtop ... 2462#92462 That means that he delivered more than 90% of his "hundreds" of shipments within the spread. Furthermore, reports here indicate that the delay is hardly ever as long as Patrick's was.

I think when such things happen, most customers would feel better if they got some kind of expression of concern from the van line and/or the booking agent. From what I've read here over the years, however, it seems as if many moving industry people - similar to doctors - are reluctant to express concern because they are afraid it might be taken as an admission of responsibility for a bad outcome. That's why I think Mayflower's offer of monetary compensation was a good thing for them to do. In my opinion, Dahill also could have expressed concern via a simple phone call rather than failing to return Patrick's calls as he describes. Customers shouldn't be made to feel as if they don't matter.

Rick
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Re: IN RESPONSE TO Dahill / Mayflower move from NYC to Denver

Postby Rick » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:54 pm

Most van lines require the use a transit guide (pattern of service table, transit schedule etc.) to calculate both the pick up date or period of time and delivery date or period of time. The recommended pickup/delivery guidelines are based on the size of the shipment and distance that it is traveling, historical performance, geographic restrictions, anticipated capacity, and the time of year that the order is expected to move.

Generally, the smaller the order the longer the required transit time. Each van line publishes their own guidelines. Mayflower’s pattern of service could be different than United’s and east coast agents could have different parameters than an agent based in Montana.

A normal pattern of service for a 2100 lb order moving 1750 miles might be 3-6 days to load and 4 – 22 days to deliver. To determine the applicable service dates, the sales person selects the loading spread based on the estimated weight and then determines the required delivery spread by intersecting the weight and miles. The delivery spread is calculated by adding the first number and the last number in the table to the first day of the loading spread. Generally Sundays and/or tariff holidays can’t be used for the first or last day of the pick up or delivery spreads.

In his original post, Patrick advised that his pick up date was June 21st and his agreed delivery dates were June 23rd to July 9th. In essence, his shipment was sold with a set pick up date and a 2-18 day delivery window.

Unfortunately, a single driver can’t legally load on a Thursday in New York and deliver in Colorado on Saturday. Since he can only drive an average of 500 miles per day, the soonest that his logs would allow him to land in Denver is probably Sunday afternoon. This means that the service dates should have been to load 6/21 and deliver between June 25th and July 11th. Basically Dahill shorted Mayflower two service days at destination.

In the end it didn’t matter, though, since Patrick received his goods on July 31st. Late is late. But his delivery wasn’t delayed for 5 weeks. It was actually late 22 days and would have been late only 20 days if the order was registered with the correct service dates.

Most reputable van lines load their customers direct on the contracted pick up date or period of time more than 90% of the time. When they aren’t able to meet those obligations, they authorize their local agent to pick up the shipment and hold it (without charge to the customer) until the assigned driver can load it. Using this tool, 99+% of the van lines’ customers are loaded within the agreed time frame.

Generally the on-time delivery service of moving companies is slightly worse than other trucking companies because they’re irregular route carriers. Their schedules are more prone to unforeseen delays because of logistical problems encountered while arranging service in people’s homes. Most van lines, however, still deliver 97% on-time or better year round.

The industry’s direct load percentage can deteriorate to 85% during critical periods in the summer, while the on-time load might slip to 95%. Extreme month end volume can cause a carrier’s on-time delivery nationwide to slip to 95%.

In some very crowded major markets like New York, Chicago and San Francisco, on-time load performance during the summer can drop to 75% because of the smaller average shipment size and the difficulty arranging and reserving elevator capacity, parking permits, smaller trucks and locating the necessary labor to provide the required services for the huge number of customer who all want to move at the same time. Carriers might only meet their delivery commitments 90% of the time when servicing shipments moving from these metropolitan areas.

Lee’s assessment and Diane's last paragraph hit the bull's eye dead center.

BigLeeCalif
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Re: IN RESPONSE TO Dahill / Mayflower move from NYC to Denver

Postby BigLeeCalif » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:24 pm

I can say this much. I think that the delay compensation during the summer should be revised to include small shipments less than 2500 lbs.

If the van lines have small shipment programs in place, and charge the agents a portion of the distributable revenue to participate, there should be a disincentive to the van line and agent if these small shipments are not automatically put into that program during the summer.

If this shipment had been registered with the knowledge that it would be difficult to have a direct pickup and load onto the van, Dahill should have planned it for carevan right off the bat. A call to HQ would have told them what to do to get the shipment into the program and ready to go.

I'm glad I helped Patrick in some small way, but it shouldn't have gotten that far. This turned out to be a case of the squeaky wheel getting the oil.

As soon as Dahill and Mayflower knew that other eyes were watching, they got the ball rolling.
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt" Mark Twain

Rick
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Re: IN RESPONSE TO Dahill / Mayflower move from NYC to Denver

Postby Rick » Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:19 am

Unfortunately, BL, there haven't been any used lift vans available on the east coast since early May, primarily because of the tremendous increase in military volume from JPPSO Northeast and increased activity out of the bases in North Carolina and Georgia. The demand for new wooden boxes was so great that most of the normal suppliers east of the Mississippi stopped accepting orders after the first week of June. Corrugated liftvans were in equally short supply simply because the industry hasn’t accepted them and the suppliers don’t keep them in their inventory.

Small shipments are a nemesis to the moving industry. But they’re usually only a headache during a few short periods during the summer. Dispatch uses them the rest of the year to fill holes in assignments and provide additional revenue to hungry drivers.

The caravan, crate-n-freight, and containerized shipment programs operated by the various van lines have the potential for solve many of the service problems associated with orders 2500 lbs or less. There is not enough revenue incentive in these small orders, however, to convince warehouseman in major markets like New York to pay $80 - $100 per foot to hoard an empty supply of 200 cu ft. crates all year that might be needed in June.

Diane
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Re: IN RESPONSE TO Dahill / Mayflower move from NYC to Denver

Postby Diane » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:32 am

Thanks for this information, Rick. It fits with what the Executive VP at Dahill told me when I called him to inquire about Patrick's shipment. He said that the van line would pay for liftvans, but they were "scarce as hen's teeth" in the NYC area and if one was available, it might be hundreds of miles away.

Maybe this case of extreme delay will get the moving companies to examine their policies regarding keeping liftvans on hand. I know that Dahill just moved its warehouse from Brooklyn to Bayonne, NJ, partly to be more accessible to the long-haul drivers but probably also to get more space.

The good thing about MovingScam developing a database of what happened on various moves over the years is that we can see that a case of extreme delay like Patrick's is highly unusual. Of the hundreds of moves reported on in the Superlist, I would say that not more than a dozen involved delivery beyond the last day of the delivery spread. That's pretty good, in my opinion, especially since people with problem moves are much more likely to post here than people who had uneventful moves.

If it seems as if Mayflower and United have had more problem moves than some other van lines, I think it's just because they do the lion's share of household goods moving in the U.S. People posting here have reported problem moves with every single major van line. As has been said here many times, there will inevitably be problems during the summer crunch, but the important thing is what the agent and van line do in response to those problems. In Patrick's case, Mayflower gave him $400 in compensation, which I think was great. In other cases, agents have gone into warehoused shipments to dig out and Fedex essential papers for customers. In many, many cases, van lines have paid for hotel rooms and part of people's meal expenses.

We really need to keep the rarity of these unusual events in focus. As Rick says and as the Mayflower driver quoted above confirmed, more than 90% of shipments are delivered in a timely way even in the summer. The Superlist here indicates that the percentage is much higher than 90% year-round. In my opinion, nobody should avoid Mayflower or Dahill because of a flurry of posts about delay here on MovingScam. The actual facts show that one person (Patrick) got his things after the last day of the delivery spread, but as far as I know everyone else posting about Dahill recently got his or her things on time.

The moderators on MovingScam tread a fine line. We feel obligated to warn customers about what can happen on moves - even with reputable companies - but at the same time we don't want to alarm them unnecessarily. Our main purpose is always to warn them away from using the disreputable companies or outright scammers. Those companies, unlike the van lines and agents, don't care one bit about customers and will never do anything to make amends for damage or delay.
Diane
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BigLeeCalif
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Re: IN RESPONSE TO Dahill / Mayflower move from NYC to Denver

Postby BigLeeCalif » Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:57 pm

What we do here Rick is buy kd (knock down) liftvans @ $50.00/ea. They are constructed as needed and the cost is added to the bill to the carrier.

Some of our major players like Arpin Int'l, Axis Int'l, Logistics Int'l, supply us with liftvans upon request. We have to always make sure to have an ample supply of empties on hand, since so far this year we've used 500 outbound.

I think the movers in the East could procure some empties, simply by virtual there is as much inbound military traffic as there is outbound.

If every inbound shipment we received in the last three months delivered tomorrow, I'd have another 300 liftvans available.

I'm curious as to how the military agents in NY are keeping up with the overseas orders. I know the bases here don't want to hear we can't service the shipment because we are out of liftvans.

Rick, have you heard any rumblings about the driver shutdown? I sent a copy of the article to Archie the other day.
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt" Mark Twain

Rick
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Re: IN RESPONSE TO Dahill / Mayflower move from NYC to Denver

Postby Rick » Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:55 pm

Liftvans turnover is so fast, particularly in the international centers like NY and DC that they don’t need to be KDd. Oversees orders get first priority followed by domestic military shipments then overflows. Small commercial orders are usually last in line.

We started hearing chatter of a shutdown/slowdown in March. The noise got a little louder in when the changes to the fuel surcharge were announced but haven’t heard much since the summer volume picked up. Most drivers that I’ve talked to recently aren’t expressing too much interest or don’t even know about it. Consequently, their managers aren’t showing much concern. There seems to be more talk in the North American and Graebel fleets.

Diane
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Re: IN RESPONSE TO Dahill / Mayflower move from NYC to Denver

Postby Diane » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:36 pm

Reposting said "chatter" regarding a strike from www.householddrivers.com - PS it might be worth going over there from time to time to see what is actually being said by the drivers who are the life-blood of this industry:
uturn wrote:6/23/07 - As far as a strike I will have to think about it.
I have been in how many strikes since the eighties 6,7,8? I dont think any have done any good.
So before I take a week away from myself during the summer feast.
I will have to think about last years winter famine.
Plus i dont no if i will return next summer anyway.

Devon wrote:how does just one week do enough to make a difference? aren't true strikes open ended until the target (in this case the carriers) and the strikers come to a mutually agreed upon compromise?

and if that's the case, wouldn't we have started preparing for this months ago?

http://householddrivers.com/PHP-Nuke/mo ... opic&t=523

uturn wrote:Plus i dont no if i will return next summer anyway.

LISTEN TO THIS, FOLKS. Here is a driver who had changed from Suddath to North American and now he is already thinking of leaving the HHG industry altogether. We need to do something to retain our quality drivers!

Rick
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Re: IN RESPONSE TO Dahill / Mayflower move from NYC to Denver

Postby Rick » Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:07 pm

If you're going to talk about retaining the industry's quality drivers, Diane, you'd better start another topic. You're gonna need the room.

Michael
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Re: IN RESPONSE TO Dahill / Mayflower move from NYC to Denver

Postby Michael » Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:08 pm

The quality drivers in the moving industry are getting old, no offense, because they are the best drivers. The know the expectations of the customer, the van line and the agent or agents in some cases that they work for and drive for. Not to many kids growing up want to be big wig drivers. Usually the ones that are, are ones that have seen their father do it and so on down the line. Most young drivers, in my opinion, dont care to much about the quality of work an agent or van line express to their customers. In most cases it can be the driver against the world. Its my way or the highway. They dont want to be told about quality, they dont care about quality. Kind of like the Gary Sheffield comments about baseball players. But in this case, a good agent isnt going to push to many buttons of the drivers they do have for fear of losing them to a competitor.

With that said, there are more good drivers then bad, but like I said the good ones are getting older and are getting tired of the moving hypocracy.
Michael
************************************

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