*Beverly Hills Transfer & Storage/Allied negative experi

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Oct2006Move

*Beverly Hills Transfer & Storage/Allied negative experi

Postby Oct2006Move » Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:42 pm

Original estimate was 6500lb - actual weight was 9400lb. This is an increase of 44% - which either indicates incompetence or a fraudulent estimate to get my business. I actually took a few less items then indicated to the salesman who came to my home. After they started loading the truck I got a call from the salesman that the driver thought it was overweight. I thought I had a binding estimate but was told after the truck was weighed it wasn't - I guess Total Guaranteed Price doesn't mean binding which seems intentionally misleading, I also am sure I specifically asked for binding. Once they have your stuff you are at their mercy - I was told there was nothing I could do. The next day I left a message for the salesman so I could talk to a manager but the call was never returned. In addition I had $40 stolen out of my wallet by the loading crew. They also helped themselves to food in the kitchen as I found half eaten items after they'd left. I was also told and this is indicated on the Bill of Lading that an Allied crew would be unloading my items - this was also false, they said they were with North American but I couldn't really be sure - though they were much better than the load folks. Several items in boxes broken, file cabinet and boxes crushed and one item missing. Have filed a Better Business Bureaus complaint (they already have 12) and a complaint with Allied - no word after four days but this may just take longer.
Lessons Learned:
- get the fact the estimate is binding in writing, signed by the salesman.
- keep an eye on the load/unload crews.
- compare estimates based on price divided by weight. Turns out Mayflower and United where both cheaper then Allied (estimate and actual price!).
- if you really want to make sure nothing is lost get a check off sheet and make sure every box coming out/going in is tagged and write down the number and condition.

Jim
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Re: Beverly Hills Transfer & Storage/Allied negative exp

Postby Jim » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:37 pm

Sorry to hear of your experience. I have some questions:

1. What weight did the United and Mayflower reps show in their estimate? Did you have other movers from other companies (United & Mayflower are the same company) come out to survey your belongings? If so, what were their weights listed as?
2. Do you have the name of the sales rep at BHTS? That's good information when your experience is posted to the overall BH Transfer & Storage reputation.
3. How did they get items out of your wallet - did you not have it on you? The Bill of Lading for most moving companies indicates they're not responsible for money, jewelry, or other similar valuables lying about, and they probably made you sign a document somewhere along the line making sure you understand this.

I am less concerned about the North American crew - Allied & North American are owned by the same parent company. But it was my impression that TPG also meant a binding estimate. Anyone?

Diane
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Re: *Beverly Hills Transfer & Storage/Allied negative ex

Postby Diane » Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:19 pm

Check to see whether your paperwork says TPG on it. If you had a TPG estimate, that is a Binding estimate and if the driver wants to protest he has to do it BEFORE he starts loading the goods on the truck. After the goads are loaded you can still be asked to sign an addendum authorizing extra charges for extra weight but you can't be forced to do so because a TPG estimate is Binding. That's the first thing.

Also, I agree with Jim that it would be good if you could post the name of the sales rep so we can keep track. In any case, keep us posted on your claim.
Diane
Check out domestic companies on this thread. Click here for a detailed, authoritative article on international moving.

Oct2006Move

Re: *Beverly Hills Transfer & Storage/Allied negative ex

Postby Oct2006Move » Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:48 am

1. 8800lb and 9800lb - I know, the other lesson learned is don't try to estimate the weight yourself. I should have thrown the Allied out and gotten another one. The other lesson is don't let them sell you - the Allied rep seemed the most knowledgeable, was here the longest and really sold me.
2. I was a bit wary of naming names - people sue over this kind of thing - his first name is Mike.
3. I leave my wallet by my car keys and forgot to grab it until after the crew was here a couple of hours. I also tried to stay out of their way instead of keeping an eye on them like I should've. My mistake and I don't expect to get it back but it's troublesome to me.

Mine says Total Guaranteed Price but underneath it has Guaranteed Rate Reduction which I gather from this forum makes it non-binding: (http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtop ... ice+pledge)
This all seems very misleading to me, especially when the salesman doesn't explain this properly.

Diane
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Re: *Beverly Hills Transfer & Storage/Allied negative ex

Postby Diane » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:18 pm

So, it appears that you got a lowball weight estimate from Beverly Hills Transfer. Most likely the cause was an inexperienced sales rep rather than an attempt to cheat you.

The "Guaranteed Rate Reduction" phrase in your contract actually assures you that if your weight had been less than the estimate, you would have paid less. It converts a Binding estimate (TPG or TGP estimate) to a Binding Not to Exceed. So that doesn't affect this particular transaction, since your weight was more than the estimate. See this post for an explanation of Allied terminology:
http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtop ... 5876#45876

Again, the regulations say that if the driver wants to protest the weight estimate, he has to do so BEFORE the goods are loaded on the truck. That is to protect you and give you the opportunity to say "No, I refuse to pay more . . . I don't want to go through with the move." Since you state that the driver had already started loading by the time the sales rep called you, it appears that Beverly Hills Transfer broke the rules and you should not be liable for any extra charges. Even if you signed an addendum or change order at that point (did you?), you could argue that you did so under duress since your goods were already partly on the truck.

BigLeeCalif
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Re: *Beverly Hills Transfer & Storage/Allied negative ex

Postby BigLeeCalif » Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:25 pm

It looks like the lesson here is something I have said before, and I'm sure Jim will agree.

If you receive three estimates, and 2 of the 3 are within 1000 lbs, and the third is way lower, I would eliminate that right off as a low ball weight.

It seems that had you gotten a binding not-to-exceed on the 9800 you would have gotten a refund, if other charges hadn't gone over.

On the 8800 lbs, even if you had a non binding estimate, the weight plus 10% would only have been 9680. On a binding or TPG estimate, the driver would have lost the protest at 9400 lbs had he chosen to lodge one.

As far as not trying to estimate the weight yourself, I agree to a point. If you have no guidelines as to how to calculate weight, don't even attempt it.

Some web sites for movers have a cube sheet that you can use to calculate weight and density. These are helpful in giving you a ballpark figure of weight. Remember they are only as good as the information entered. If you'd like to see one, pm me and I'll email it.
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt" Mark Twain

Diane
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Re: *Beverly Hills Transfer & Storage/Allied negative ex

Postby Diane » Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:31 pm

My understanding is that when there is a weight discrepancy of this kind, the driver has to eat the first 10% over the original estimate, which would be 650 pounds in this case (in other words, he has to transport it without being compensated for it), and then the sales rep loses his commission to make up for the overage over that. The idea is to protect the driver from loss of income because of a mistake, intentional or otherwise, made by the sales rep. If the sales rep can get the customer to sign off on it and pay for it, of course that's best for the rep.

BigLeeCalif
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Re: *Beverly Hills Transfer & Storage/Allied negative ex

Postby BigLeeCalif » Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:33 pm

That is correct.

The driver would certainly have won a protest at the 6500 lbs, which by now we know was underestimated.

However, had the shipper selected the 8800 lbs, and had either a TPG or NTE estimate, the driver would not have had a successful protest, because the 9400 lbs was less than 10% over the original weight.
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt" Mark Twain

anonymous1

Re: *Beverly Hills Transfer & Storage/Allied negative ex

Postby anonymous1 » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:35 pm

I also think you got a bum estimator in your home.
If what was on the cube sheet (inventory list the salesperson made when in your home) matches the inventories the driver made on the day of load then by no means should you pay more. If the salesperson goofed the estimate and the shipper didn't add anything over and above what was on the cube sheet they signed when setting up the move then yes, the salesperson is supposed to pay the difference out of his/her commission with the agent paying the difference if the increased transportation charges are more than what the salesperson had set aside for commission.
What most likely happened is that the salesperson didn't want to lose their commission so they called and asked you to pay more. I think if you'd have refused you wouldn't have been backed into a corner and forced to pay more, the salesperson would have just lost their commission and most likely had the agent principal a bit flustered with them (which is good, because that might convince them to do whatever they need to do to correct whatever it is that's causing them to blow surveys.)
....As a side-note, if the salesperson erroneously left out many items on the cube sheet then it would appear on load day that you had added items to the shipment, even though you didn't. The lesson here is always review your cube sheet before you book your move to make sure there are no major errors on it.
My guess is that if you go back to the cube sheet the salesperson made in your home you'll find that there are plenty of items in your home which were not accounted for on it.

Shipments which get "Challenged" have these rules:
1) The driver must call in a challenge before loading the shipment (that's already been discussed here.)
2) The driver wins a challenge (and is therefore compensated for transporting the actual weight of the shipment) if the actual weight is greater than 110% of the estimated weight of the shipment.
3) If the driver calls in a challenge and loses the challenge he is charged $75.

The way it's supposed to work extra-money-wise is that the customer only has to pay more if they've added items to the shipment. This seems pretty fair to me.
Sadly, in this instance I'm willing to bet that there were a few glaring ommissions on the cube sheet and it would have looked to everyone involved that there were more items being transported than were originally agreed upon. If you wish to press the issue with the van line I'm guessing that this would be a roadblock which would be difficult to overcome.

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents' worth.

farrah7031
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Re: *Beverly Hills Transfer & Storage/Allied negative ex

Postby farrah7031 » Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:23 pm

Thanks for your feedback, anonymous1. That was extremely helpful!

BigLeeCalif
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Re: *Beverly Hills Transfer & Storage/Allied negative ex

Postby BigLeeCalif » Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:45 pm

Anonymous, it's obvious you are an industry insider.

I wonder if the sales person used the going... not going checkmarks on the cube sheet.

Unless he/she did a half a** walkthrough everything in the home should have been accounted for in one of those columns.

I agree with you that the shipper should compare the cube sheet to the inventories. The piece count on the inventory should match very closely the piece count on the cube sheet.

And to Oct if you can email me a copy of your cube sheet/estimate, I can take a look at it to see if they violated the spirit of the estimate. You'll need to register here to be able to do that however.
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt" Mark Twain

Jim
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:42 pm
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Re: *Beverly Hills Transfer & Storage/Allied negative ex

Postby Jim » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:12 pm

Big Lee, I completely agree with you. This was a screwed up survey done by someone who IMHO has no business doing a survey or even work in this industry if they screw up like that.

The only question I have at this point is that Oct has a TPG estimate and no one seems to be honoring it. No one went followed proper procedure to challenge the weight, and Oct is being forced to swallow (1) the extra cost associated with a negligent estimate, and (2) a driver who didn't challenge weight until after his belongings were loaded. Oct has a legit contract and no one at BHTS seems to care - can BHTS be this lame?

Oct, did you pay the difference yet? Did you sign an addendum? If you did pay but didn't sign an addendum, and you have your TPG binding estimate with your copy of the cube sheet, you might want to try small claims to force them to honor their own contract if they tell you to go jump in a lake. I mean with all that information, it sounds like a dead-bang winner.

12 complaints on a BBB report? Frightening... :shock:

Oct2006Move

Re: *Beverly Hills Transfer & Storage/Allied negative ex

Postby Oct2006Move » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:17 am

The salesman told me he had 3 years experience - I certainly don't believe that now.
I paid the difference (credit card - no signature), there was no addendum it was verbal on the phone when the salesman told me the weight/$. He also said there was nothing that could be done. When they have all of your stuff it makes it hard to argue. I'll have to look into the small claims idea.
Thanks everyone for the input.

moverjim
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Re: *Beverly Hills Transfer & Storage/Allied negative ex

Postby moverjim » Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:47 pm

Mine says Total Guaranteed Price but underneath it has Guaranteed Rate Reduction which I gather from this forum makes it non-binding:


That wording makes it a Guaranteed Price with a reduction if the weight is less.

You need to contact Allied Van Lines Customer Service and explain your issues. Without a signed addendum for the additional costs, you should not have to pay in excess of the TPG.

Diane
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:18 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: *Beverly Hills Transfer & Storage/Allied negative ex

Postby Diane » Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:21 pm

I am making a note of this incident as well as Beverly Hills Transfer's 12 BBB complaints in my Superlist linked to below. (I had seen the company's "A" rating with the BBB and hadn't realized that it had so many complaints.)

Two other well-known companies in the area, Gemini Moving Specialists (United) in North Hollywood and Andy's Transfer (North American) in Glendale, have far fewer BBB complaints. Gemini has 7 over the past 36 months and Andy's has only 2. Yet they all have been given "A" ratings by the BBB. Kind of misleading.
Diane
Check out domestic companies on this thread. Click here for a detailed, authoritative article on international moving.


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