Any thoughts on buying 'full valuation protection'?

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cheryl

Any thoughts on buying 'full valuation protection'?

Postby cheryl » Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:56 pm

Hi - glad to find this list.

We're moving quite a distance in a couple of weeks, and I'm trying to understand the purchase of full valuation protection. My questions relate to coverage:

- if we're self-packing, could this mean a damage claim would never be considered the fault of the mover?
- will we have to have every box inventoried on the bill of lading?
- we won't open every single box on delivery, but the paperwork I've seen so far says we have to make an 'exceptions' list on the spot on delivery.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I've only found one company online where you can buy extra insurance. Our USAA policy covers some things (fire, for example) but not theft, not dropping and breaking, etc.

Any guidance is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Cheryl

MusicMom
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Re: Any thoughts on buying 'full valuation protection'?

Postby MusicMom » Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:25 pm

Cheryl, mind if I ask which moving company you'll be using?

One of the "moverguys" will be along shortly to give you a great explanation of the FVP.

And if you're thinking about buying your insurance online, I think I know which website you are referring to. Don't do it!

Two "Third Party Insurance" companies that have been discussed with good outcomes are AIG and Baker International.

Guest

Re: Any thoughts on buying 'full valuation protection'?

Postby Guest » Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:44 pm

Thank you very much for the response. We're using McLaughlin Mayflower (now that I've read what's on this site I'm scared!)... we live in New Hampshire and are moving to Wisconsin...

Tks for the information on the other insurers. I'm really surprised USAA doesn't have a rider you can buy..

Thanks! Cheryl

Diane
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Re: Any thoughts on buying 'full valuation protection'?

Postby Diane » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:15 pm

Hi, Cheryl -

As far as I know, no homeowner's or renter's insurance will protect you against the things that are most likely to happen when you move . . . dings in your furniture and breakage. It protects only against catastrophes such as fire and overturning of the moving van, and I think also theft (you might want to double-check on this).

I don't think you should be frightened of using McLaughlin Mayflower. It has no bad comments on this board and one moving professional who doesn't work for the company praised it - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1761 Someone posting as "Jag" was set to use it in June and you could send him/her a private message to see how it went. You have to register for this site to be able to send and receive PMs.

CherylH
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Re: Any thoughts on buying 'full valuation protection'?

Postby CherylH » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:34 pm

Thanks for the information. I've registered and sent JAG a note, and also checked out the Baker International site.... cheryl

Diane
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Re: Any thoughts on buying 'full valuation protection'?

Postby Diane » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:38 am

Good - I hope you'll hear from Jag, although people who move often change their email addresses and we lose touch with them.

It's too bad that there's no way for the average person to research agents of major van lines because there are quality scores that are available to people who work for the same van line. All I know about McLaughlin (besides what's stated above) is that it's a very large Mayflower agent.

Sometimes these agents can't even be researched on www.safersys.org, because their own records have been superseded by Mayflower's. However, If you're dealing with the branch of McLaughlin in Nashua, NH (MC #063020), there is some information about it on safersys and it looks good. It appears to have been in business for at least 50 years, a very good sign.

Moverguys, can you answer Cheryl's initial questions about FVP (top of thread)?

CherylH
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Re: Any thoughts on buying 'full valuation protection'?

Postby CherylH » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:56 am

Diane - thanks for the note. We are dealing with a branch of the Nashua office, so maybe that's good too. I did get a pm from Jag, who pointed me to other threads I've just finished reading.

I did get enough information from Mayflower yesterday to learn that buying Full Value Protection when self packing won't provide any compensation unless a) we take an exception upon delivery and b) there is actual carton damage. Considering this, it doesn't seem like buying FVP is worth it. I'm going to f/u with Baker and AIG to see what they can offer, if anything, for self packing moves.

As far as the rest of our details, I'm really concerned we've been moving too fast and not paying attention to the details. We may be doing all right with our Estimate/Offer for Service, but I don't want there to be a misunderstanding on the other end.

Our understanding is a guaranteed pickup on 10/7, guaranteed delivery on 10/13, and the OFS says this. We have a non-bound estimate (option A); I don't recall that he even offered a bound estimate. I think we're ok with this, paying based on our our actual weight? But two other things concern me now:

- should we view the weighing - do most people do this?

- that space reservation issue - we have a box checked for space reservation for 1600 cu ft. After the original estimate with his 12,297 lbs and 1600 cu ft, I told him there were a number of things we weren't going to move - did he need to revise the estimate? He came over, we discussed it, and he said that he'd leave it as is - this way they were committed to allotting that much space, which provided us the ability to have a 1-day window for pick up and drop off times. Considering that it's a non bound estimate, then we were not 'required' to pay for 1600 cu ft.

- I don't like the order for service saying (option A) after the non-bound estimate statement, only because there's no documentation saying exactly what option A means. Should I request a copy of whatever he's got that explains that? That seemed reasonable to me, but his secretary didn't understand why I was questioning it.

I'm sorry to throw in all those questions above...

Any add'l comments or thoughts are truly appreciated. Thanks very much, Cheryl

blue
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Re: Any thoughts on buying 'full valuation protection'?

Postby blue » Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:09 am

Full Value Protection when self packing won't provide any compensation unless a) we take an exception upon delivery and b) there is actual carton damage.


In the absence of signs of carrier mishandling at delivery (crushed, wet, holes in box) the carrier would likely deny any claims for concealed damage involving a PBO (packed by owner) carton.

Our understanding is a guaranteed pickup on 10/7, guaranteed delivery on 10/13, and the OFS says this.


Ask the agent if they are hauling with their own fleet. If not, ask how they will be certain delivery will occur on the agreed date. Make sure they are not agreeing to a delivery 'spread' rather than a specific date.

We have a non-bound estimate (option A); I don't recall that he even offered a bound estimate. I think we're ok with this, paying based on our our actual weight?


If the sales rep actually inspected EVERYTHING to be shipped, there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to give you a GNTE estimate. Ask them to revise the estimate to GNTE.

Diane
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Re: Any thoughts on buying 'full valuation protection'?

Postby Diane » Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:25 am

I strongly agree with what was just said about asking for a GNTE estimate. Unless your stuff is going into storage, or unless some of it is IN storage currently and can't be seen, there is no reason for you to have been given a non-binding estimate. I just reviewed the earlier thread by Jag reporting on his/her move and I see that there was also some confusion about the estimates with that move, although the overall experience with McLaughlin (different branch) was good - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2069

I don't know why Mayflower doesn't use terms widely understood in the industry such as Nonbinding, Binding, and Binding/Guaranteed Not to Exceed instead of obscuring things with the terms Option A, B, and C, which are gobbledygook to most consumers. Ditto for the NAVL "NSO" classification.

I agree that the guaranteed delivery date sounds unusually optimistic, especially for this time of year.

CherylH
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Re: Any thoughts on buying 'full valuation protection'?

Postby CherylH » Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:32 am

More good points - I sure wish I found this site before I initiated the paperwork.

Based on the feedback and reading so far, I'll

- request a bound estimate not to exceed.
- request a recalculation based on the reduction in items we'd told him about
- still, even with better recalculation, not sign the 'space reservation' block on the OFS
- make sure they're transporting with their own fleet, which must be why they can 'guarantee' a delivery date and not a spread
- Get a photocopy of the bill of lading

Couple more questions:

1) There was some discussion previously about the Additional Services Price List, which I received and signed. If that document is, in fact, contradictory to the Rights and Responsibilities booklet I received (5/04 version) then does it really matter if you've signed it or not? And if it does, I guess I need to get them to return it to me?

2) I assume the view weighing means physically going to the weigh station? Is that hard to coordinate times for when they're going to get there, or do you end up spending 1/2 day traveling and waiting? This seems pretty important but difficult to do on probably the two most stressful/busy days of the year.

Thanks again so very much.... Cheryl

CherylH
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Re: Any thoughts on buying 'full valuation protection'?

Postby CherylH » Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:39 am

Diane, The consultant's take on the delivery date was you could pick the exact date anywhere between 5 an 8 days after the load date, counting weekend and holiday driving times. The United rep had the same story. They said it was because of the weight estimate and being past Labor Day.

Mayflower, who we're signed with right now, came in at 12,297 lbs; United said around 14,500. Both said they're estimates are always within 10%.

cheryl

blue
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Re: Any thoughts on buying 'full valuation protection'?

Postby blue » Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:03 am

There was some discussion previously about the Additional Services Price List, which I received and signed. If that document is, in fact, contradictory to the Rights and Responsibilities booklet I received (5/04 version) then does it really matter if you've signed it or not? And if it does, I guess I need to get them to return it to me?


The additional services price list is intended to protect you and the carrier. It is intended to alert you to the POSSIBLE cost of any additional services not included in the original estimate, IF they should occur or be necessary. For example, the most common (open to debate) occurs when the delivery site prevents access for a tractor trailer (which your shipment will definitely be moved on). A shuttle to a smaller truck might be necessary. Or if you require storage or request unpacking at destination. Just a few items included on the additional services list that could come into play. Review it and ask for a copy signed by the sales rep.

I assume the view weighing means physically going to the weigh station? Is that hard to coordinate times for when they're going to get there, or do you end up spending 1/2 day traveling and waiting?


If you want to view both the empty and heavy weighings, you'll need to coordinate with the driver. The sales rep can put you in touch with the driver if you're interested in viewing the empty weighing prior to loading. Or you can request an empty weighing after delivery. Either way, you will have to travel to the certified scale for both empty/heavy and depending on where the scale is located, it could involve some time. All drivers SHOULD call you personally 24-48 hours prior to loading. Let him/her know of your interest ahead of time.

weem
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Re: Any thoughts on buying 'full valuation protection'?

Postby weem » Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:20 am

You should get a "not to exceed" estimate without the space reservation. To the very best of my knowledge there is no insurance or valuation anywhere that will protect you from "owner packed" damage----nowhere.
Regarding the viewing the weight option-----if you have a not to exceed and if YOU FEEL THE WEIGHT REPORTED AT THE ORIGIN WEIGHING IS NOT ACCURATE, you can request a reweigh at destination , with you being present,----at no cost. Read your booklet and you will see this option. Please use this option only if you believe the weight is wrong---this option cost the driver time and money and can really hurt his feelings as he is basically accused of being dishonest. Most major van line drivers are honest business people. The reason for suggesting viewing the weight at destination is there is usually more time available to you there as opposed to origin where you are usually frantic to get all the last minute stuff done.

CherylH
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Re: Any thoughts on buying 'full valuation protection'?

Postby CherylH » Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:36 am

Thanks for all the comments. Our new house is in a flatland area, easily accessible and wide enough street, etc. I doubt the items listed on that price list will apply. I'm almost surprised, though, that moving companies don't get a rep to visit the destination so they know what they're dealing with.

Thanks again for the comments. I really don't want to make major issues out of minor things, but want to make sure I didn't miss an important issue.

cheryl

Diane
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Re: Any thoughts on buying 'full valuation protection'?

Postby Diane » Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:58 am

CherylH wrote:I'm almost surprised, though, that moving companies don't get a rep to visit the destination so they know what they're dealing with.

A few agents--a very few--have done so in the past for moves reported on this board. Volunteers like Tyrone have always argued for this. I guess it must be difficult to do; otherwise more agents would do it. Moverguys, comments, anyone?


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