exceeded "guaranteed not to exceed"

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marcie
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:41 pm

exceeded "guaranteed not to exceed"

Postby marcie » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:38 pm

I am in the waiting stage of a move from Minnesota to New Jersey with Beltmann, a North American agent.

They loaded Jan 13th, estimated delivery between Jan 19 - 26.

I called today to get a more accurate estimated time of delivery, and to see what the exact price would be so I can get a money order.

It turns out that my move, which was "guaranteed not to exceed" $2186 was actually $2576. I found out, a bit late, that the guarantee was contingent upon the weight not exceeding the estimated weight!! My stuff, which was estimated to be 3,623 lbs, actually weighed 4,460 lbs. I was told that the extra charges were "industry standard," even with a GNTE estimate.

The fine print on the contract said that this price quote was "only for those articles, quantities, and services listed on the accompanying estimate inventory summary," so I figured that I could be charged for extra items, but not for extra lbs.

I suppose I wasn't really scammed per se, but I feel that I was misled. Is there anything I can do? I'm guessing that it's probably best to pay the extra $400, get my stuff back, and avoid hassles.

The moral of the story: make sure you understand you estimate, even if it has a catchy title like "guaranteed not to exceed."

Michael
Posts: 3255
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:55 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: exceeded "guaranteed not to exceed"

Postby Michael » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:22 pm

Marcie,

Thats a bunch of bull. Yes the inventory and not to exceed cost includes what is on the estimate, but a protest has to take place at the time of load. If non is made, then they cannot charge you for more weight after the fact.

Nancy in a previous post had mentioned how NAVL new procedures were for the driver to eat the charges and such I do believe. You may want to PM here to find out their procedures. She works for NAVL.

But I think its crap and I wouldnt pay for it and I would discuss this with Beltmann. Mark Van Clay is one of the Head Honcho's for Beltmann.
Michael
************************************

Forget yourself for others and the others will never forget

East Coast Mover

Re: exceeded "guaranteed not to exceed"

Postby East Coast Mover » Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:16 am

I am not sure you understand your gnte. The only way you should have to pay more is, if you added items that were not included in the gnte. Now if you no you added things to your shipment then be honest and pay the bill. If you did not add items to your shipment call your sale's person and get this cleared up. TIP (By law a beltman driver will always deliver if you pay 110% of the estimate) Michael per NAVL policy drivers do not protest shipments anymore. It used to stress out the customer,and make them think they were being scammed. This often led to bogus claims being filed, so now they just load the shipment. NAVL, the driver, and the driver's agent figure out who gets paid what, without customer involvement or knowledge. Usually the driver winds up eating 10%of the overage. NAVL, the agent, and the sale's person eat the rest. So the driver winds hauling tonage for free. The sale's person winds up loseing part of his commission. As for the industry standard charges, I think thoose are things like the fuel surcharge etc

Michael
Posts: 3255
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:55 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: exceeded "guaranteed not to exceed"

Postby Michael » Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:09 am

ECM,

I guess its one half of a dozen here and one half of a dozen there. Meaning, do you stress the customer out prior to the load, or after the load with the claim of goods weighing more. And then what stops the customer from blaming the sales person, saying as they always do, "I should them everything I was moving".

It becomes a game of he said/she said. Also, on an inventory a driver does, we both know that, for example, he inventories the entire bed, pc by pc. We as sales people, inventory just the bed. So of course right off the bat, there is our one pc, to the drivers 5 (hd bd, ft bd, matt, box sp, and frame).

But I do agree, if the shipper added more, and it should be very noticeable from the inventory cause the items should be properly marked as not going that the sales person did at the time of the walk through, then yes, the shipper should pay for what the weight is, but I also think they have to be made aware of this and what the GNTE means. You know and I know its written on all the forms, but we know they dont read all the stuff we give them.
Michael
************************************

Forget yourself for others and the others will never forget

Diane
Posts: 15824
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:18 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: exceeded "guaranteed not to exceed"

Postby Diane » Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:18 am

East Coast Mover wrote: Michael per NAVL policy drivers do not protest shipments anymore. It used to stress out the customer,and make them think they were being scammed. This often led to bogus claims being filed, so now they just load the shipment.

ECM, what kind of bogus claims?

Michael, in the situation he is describing the customer would NOT be billed. The NAVL employees would eat the cost and the customer would never be confronted with the extra weight.

marcie
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:41 pm

Re: exceeded "guaranteed not to exceed"

Postby marcie » Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:23 pm

thanks for the replies.

michael- you are right - it is a bunch of bull.

i didn't sneak a bunch of extra stuff into the load, but there were a few extra boxes from the basement that i don't think were included in the estimate (actually the whole estimate process was kind of difficult because i was out of town and had to get my landlord to let people in, but that's another story...) but that was nowhere near 800 lbs worth of stuff - more like 150 lbs or so.

i looked more closely at "your rights and responsibilities as a mover" and realized that they have to say something at the time if they think that the load is bigger, otherwise the binding estimate is assumed to still hold.

also, it says that , on delivery, i can't be required to pay more than the amount of the binding estimate. realizing this, i at least feel safer about disputing the charge, since i should still be able to get my stuff without paying extra - right?

i am going to make some calls tomorrow and see what i can do...

Diane
Posts: 15824
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:18 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: exceeded "guaranteed not to exceed"

Postby Diane » Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:47 pm

Marcie, there is a chance that this was an honest clerical error. We had a similar case recently where an Atlas agent mistakenly charged a customer as if he had had a binding quote when in fact he had a GNTE quote so the price should have gone down when the weight was less - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2627. The agent (A-1 First Class Viking in NYC) made things right when the mistake was discovered.

So I wouldn't come on too strong with the moving company at the beginning. You have the paperwork to prove what kind of estimate you had, and a reputable company will stand by its estimate.
Last edited by Diane on Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

me/Michael

Re: exceeded "guaranteed not to exceed"

Postby me/Michael » Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:02 am

Diane,

In Marcie's case she isnt being told that Beltmann and all those involved eat anything at all. She is being told she owes more at time of delivery. Which by the way is more then 10%. Which as she mentioned according to "The Rights and Responsibilities" they cannot do.

So does NAVL not follow these guidelines because they have their own? And like I said, is it better to make it a hassle during the load or after the load? What happens now if Marcie does protest the cost and payment according to the rights and responsibilities and NAVL decides to hold her goods until she pays?

That is why a legal protest needs to be made at time of load by the driver.

Now maybe NAVL is making a mistake and will owe up to it. And I am sorry, not NAVL, but Beltmann.

Marcie, in Beltmanns defense, more boxes does mean more weight. Nowhere on a quote does it stipulate a rate per item due if added.

I do agree with Diane that you should be diplomatic with your discussion with them, and describe exactly what you have describe to us with the rights and responsibilities. And like Diane mentioned it could be a simple mistake on their part. If that fails to work, then get mean and nasty and fight for what you know is right.

Also, I would ask Beltmann to produce a inventory list of the articles they are claiming are not on the original inventory that they shipped. And if they say box, ask how many and what size.

If its NAVL policy to not bill the customer for NTE pricing and est the differences amongst those involved, then they should do just that.

Please keep us posted.

Nancy
Posts: 2255
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:24 pm
Location: California

Re: exceeded "guaranteed not to exceed"

Postby Nancy » Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:09 pm

Have you contacted NAVL customer service direct? Even if Beltmann booked and hauled your shipment, the customer service department should help you out. Their number is on your bill of lading and order for service.

marcie
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:41 pm

Re: exceeded "guaranteed not to exceed"

Postby marcie » Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:08 pm

Diane is right - it was all an honest error.

The person who gave me the high price was my salesperson's assistant. I got ahold of my salesperson today, and he didn't know where the bogus figure came from. Also, the driver called to say he'll be here tomorrow, and the price he had was exactly the estimate.

What a relief.

Thanks for the help.

me/michael

Re: exceeded "guaranteed not to exceed"

Postby me/michael » Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:57 pm

Glad to hear it all turned out ok.

Michael

East Coast Mover

Re: exceeded "guaranteed not to exceed"

Postby East Coast Mover » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:36 pm

I'm happy for you that it turned out okay. (right from the beginning I thought it would) Be nice to your driver, maybe buy him a cup of coffe. Although he wont tell you,and of course through no fault of your own. This little mishap cost him $39.

FMcglynn
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:52 am
Location: Massachusetts

Re: exceeded "guaranteed not to exceed"

Postby FMcglynn » Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:10 pm

The mover is correct in their assertion regarding guaranteed not to exceed. The mover however knew the exact weight of your load afetr they left your pickup location.

Once a move is loaded the driver will go to the scales to detremine the weight of your shipment. They could have notified you of the additional weight. You still have to pay it, it just would not have been a suprise.

When estimating a household goods shipment, all movers try to be as accurate as possible. The weight of some items is an educated guess at most, and usually off. $400.00 dollars is not a large variance for a interstate move. The mover was actually fairly close compared to a lot of others out there.

Be thankful you did not go with a mover who uses bills by cubic feet.

Nancy
Posts: 2255
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:24 pm
Location: California

Re: exceeded "guaranteed not to exceed"

Postby Nancy » Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:33 pm

IF you read the entire post, you would see that the company did back up their original GNTE price for this customer. Yes, estimates are tough sometimes, but when a GNTE is issued, that is all the customer is liable to pay for.

Michael
Posts: 3255
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:55 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: exceeded "guaranteed not to exceed"

Postby Michael » Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:13 pm

F,

Then why give a not to exceed quote if your going to charge more if the weight is more? Yes the shipper should be made aware if they add more then they can be charged more, but at some point if nothing is added, and like you said, estimating the exact weight isnt an exact science, then in my opinion and I am sure others here, they should eat those charges. And if they are not going to eat those charges, then there has to be proper procedures to protesting a move by a driver.

This isnt suppose to be "well its guaranteed if your weight is less" game. That goes for any mover, not just in this case.
Michael
************************************

Forget yourself for others and the others will never forget


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