Moving from Avon Mass to Bridgewater Mass

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SteveBrenton
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 8:56 pm

Moving from Avon Mass to Bridgewater Mass

Postby SteveBrenton » Tue May 17, 2005 9:11 pm

Hi - I was looking to see if i could get some advice from this board. I have been looking at many movers and my head is now spinning. I want to stay anway from the big movers who charge massive prices but I also want someone who will be trust worthy and do the job right. I have already backed away from gentle giant with a 1800 dollar non-binding price tag for a two bedroom, 15 mile move as well as DNvanlines.com since they have claimed bankrupcy in the last 3 years. I am currently looking at avivmovers.com, has anyone used them before? Does anyone have any advice on who to use?

Thanks in advance,

-Steve

Diane
Posts: 15824
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:18 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Moving from Avon Mass to Bridgewater Mass

Postby Diane » Tue May 17, 2005 9:24 pm

Hi - I would advise you not to use Aviv (#MC 345041). Its interstate license was revoked between July 2001 and March 2005. Although you're moving in-state, I still think that is a bad sign.

I can't possibly recommend this company, but here is a thread describing a successful move within Boston last year - http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2591 The person got quotes from a number of companies and chose Benny's, which has a very dubious reputation but might be OK for in-state moves. I would suggest asking local realtors for recommendations.

Oded

Re: Moving from Avon Mass to Bridgewater Mass

Postby Oded » Sat May 13, 2006 11:07 am

Hey,

I'm the General Manager of DN Van Lines. We have not claimed bankrupcy in the last 3 years, or ever to my knowledge. Where are you getting this information from? Please let me know, it would be extremly helpful. Thanks.

Oded Carmi

MusicMom
Posts: 19323
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:51 am
Location: DC Metro

Re: Moving from Avon Mass to Bridgewater Mass

Postby MusicMom » Sat May 13, 2006 9:25 pm

Not sure where the original author found that, but the post was from almost a year ago. I can't find any mention of you and bankruptcy, either. Your license is from 2003, so any bankruptcy would have been at the time you were being founded.

What the person may have been referring to was the bankruptcy of another company, Atra Van Lines. It's documented in this thread:

http://www.movingscam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=987

And since DN Van Lines, your company, is advertising using Atra's license numbers, I can see where the confusion would lie.

http://www.vanlines.com/local_movers/co ... lines.html

DN Van Lines company profile

Address: 615 Concord Street Framingham MA, 01702
License: MDPU - 30981
License: MC-334978
License: USDOT - 733136

Description: We provide the support you need for your relocation. Free estimates over the telephone are our number one way of providing the best service to you. These services include: Local Moves - any job conducted entirely within the State of Massachusetts... pick up to final destination. In this case, we charge by the hour, with a two hour minimimum off peak. The hourly rate is determined by the number of trucks and movers needed to do the job. Additional charges may apply. Long Distance Moves - We travel anywhere across the Continental United States, and Canada. A representative can help you calculate the volume as well as how many trucks and men will be needed to handle your move - all you need to do is provide a list of the items you are moving. For all long distance moves we charge by cubic feet or volume of the cargo to be moved. Commercial Moves - Typically, a commercial relocation is more involved than a residential move. Office equipment and timing of the delivery are critical to your business, and we strive to comply with your needs. As a rule, if you have more than six rooms of office furniture, a trained professional will coem to your business upon request to provide you with an estimate and to discuss your requirements -- all free of charge. We also provide a packing service. Packing Service - If packing is not for you have our professionally trained team safely wrap and place your belongings in boxes for you. We have a full packing service available for you on the day of the move plus the material that you will need. Storage Facility - Our storage facility is a convenient place for you to leave your belongings for a short time or for years. You may store your goods for as long as you like. We charge on a monthly basis. Insurance - We are fully licensed and insured. There are two types of insurance offered through DN Van Lines. The basic liability for no charge is $0.60 per pound per article. Additional insurance can be purchased at $10.00 per $1,000 worth of declared value with a $3,000.00 minimum up to $50,000.00 and a $250.00 deductible.

Guest

Re: Moving from Avon Mass to Bridgewater Mass

Postby Guest » Mon May 15, 2006 6:15 pm

Thank you so much for your research! That makes a lot of sense. I have no idea why Atra's liscensing information is displayed as ours. The correct info for DN Van Lines is:

MDTE: 30981
ICC MC: 462886
DOT: 1141917

I am going to call Vanlines.com first thing tommorow to have that changed. As for cubic feet vs weight, it is to my understanding that movers are allowed to charge by cubic feet if they guarantee that their price will not exceed 10% more than the estimate. Any additional thoughts and comments would be appreciated.

Oded Carmi
General Manager
DN Van Lines

MusicMom
Posts: 19323
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:51 am
Location: DC Metro

Re: Moving from Avon Mass to Bridgewater Mass

Postby MusicMom » Tue May 16, 2006 7:38 am

Yes, there is a loophole allowing for a Cubic Feet estimate on a Binding Estimate, but still, only disreputable companies use this measuring method. Good companies measure by weight, which is PROVABLE with weight tickets. We will continue to say that any company billing in Cubic Feet should be avoided.

So there is absolutely no connection between DN Van lines and Atra?

Also, you cannot advertise your company on this site. You can offer advice on a specific problem or question, but you cannot offer your services.

odedcarmi
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:38 pm

Re: Moving from Avon Mass to Bridgewater Mass

Postby odedcarmi » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:45 pm

Dear Musicmom,

I was alerted by Diane, that I had not responded to your questions. As echoed in one of my recent posts:

"In terms of a connection with Atra Van Lines, there is none. The licensing information that linked us to Atra Van Lines was displayed on a site called VanLines.com. This is an advertiser that we pay to provide us with information of people who are looking for moving quotes. There are many sites like this such as 123movers.com, MyMovingNeeds.com, etc.

A while back VanLines.com displayed wrong licensing information for DN Van Lines. As soon as I was alerted of this by musicmom, it was updated and changed. "

I respectfully disagree with your assertion that only "disreputable" moving companies uses a binding price based on cubic feet. When performing an on-site estimate it is much easier to determine the volume of an inventory than it is to estimate its weight. We base our charges on an estimated cubic foot measurement and give a guaranteed price based on it. I really don't feel that this is a dishonest practice, as the customer has a fixed price that they can compare with other quotes. I am interested in hearing your feed back on this matter.

Sincerely,

Oded Carmi
General Manager
DN Van Lines

MusicMom
Posts: 19323
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:51 am
Location: DC Metro

Re: Moving from Avon Mass to Bridgewater Mass

Postby MusicMom » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:05 pm

I appreciate you fixing the license mistake.

The cubic foot vs. weight argument boils down to scammer history. Prior to August 2005, a non-binding estimate could be done by either weight or volume. The wording left a loophole, that customers had the right to a re-weigh, but nothing was said about the right to a re-measurement of volume. Scammers convinced customers that volume was better, and thus was born a profitable business.

The loophole was closed, relegating volume measurements to only Binding Estimates, where no re-measuring of either weight or volume woul happen. But by this point, reputable movers have pretty much all gone to weight-based bills, with few exceptions. Those that specialize in binding prices do fine with few complaints. Others try to claim the original binding estimate is unbound by the customer having more belongings than originally estimated.

It still remains that a consumer is safest with a weight-based estimate, because this can be proven with the certified weight tickets. I will continue to suggest that all customers push for weight estimates for their own protection.

It is wrong to say that a volume estimate is far easier, as all you have to do is multiply the volume in cubic feet by 7 to get an estimated weight. It takes 5 seconds and a calculator, then you can promise your customers the peace of mind that comes with the proof of a certified weight ticket.

odedcarmi
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:38 pm

Re: Moving from Avon Mass to Bridgewater Mass

Postby odedcarmi » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:50 pm

Musicmom,

I am familiar with the rule of thumb for the measurement of household goods. Just like you described, each cubic foot of household goods is approximated to weigh 7 lbs.

I personally, have run into problems by relying too heavily on this paradigm. For example, if a customer moves an inventory that has 100 book boxes (1.5 CF each) filled with books the inventory will most likely weigh more than 100 x 1.5 x 7 or 1050 LB. On the other hand if the book boxes are filled with Styrofoam and small misc objects the inventory can weigh less than 1050 LB. But in both cases the volume is the same.

Our in home estimators carry a tape measure with them and often measure out the dimension of many of the pieces. Their estimate of the volume of the inventory helps us know how many trucks are needed for a job. And since our pricing is fixed or capped for intrastate moves, we feel that we are indeed being straightforward with our customers.

All this being said I respect your opinion. My experience here tonight has taught me that there are a lot of very knowledgeable people active on this board. I just hope that consumers can keep an open mind about pricing structures, as long as they are fair, and don't cross companies of of their list simply due to the fact that they don't use weight as their main factor when providing binding estimates.

Sincerely,

Oded Carmi
General Manager
DN Van Lines

chaz4moving
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:02 am
Location: Lancaster PA

Re: Moving from Avon Mass to Bridgewater Mass

Postby chaz4moving » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:52 pm

Oded,
It sounds like you are being fair with your customers. From your statements, I gather you are giving a "flat price" when you quote binding estimates. Again, that's fine as far as I'm concerned. Probably 70% of my quotes have been "flat pricing" which don't go up or down. Just because you do something different does not make it wrong. The only problems I see for you are that pricing based on weight has become somewhat the industry standard and moves priced by cubic feet seem to be a preferred method of "scammers." Although you may be very honest, some people are going to look at your company as a "scammer" because of the way you do your pricing. However, international moves are based on volume. In the U. S., we convert them to weight so the public is more comfortable with the quoting process. You may be losing some business because customers are afraid of volume based pricing. But I see nothing wrong with the concept as long as it's done properly and the customers pricing is not changed unless they've really added things to the shipment. I respectfully disagree with Music Mom that customers are safer with a weight based estimate. I believe I've posted my thougts on this matter previously. With what I have to say, I'm not going to change Music Mom's point of view and, in turn, she will probably not change mine. And that's OK. I believe I have some understanding of Music Mom's thinking and depending on the van line, she may be correct. However, it's been my personal experience that when working with a reputable mover of a particular van line, "flat priced" moves are more competively priced. The drivers I've dealt with like not having to go to the scales and customers don't have to be concerned about their weight being bumped. I've also felt the "flat price" estimate was simpler and more easily understood by the customer. I might have a driver challenge the weight of a shipment once or twice a year. With only a few exceptions (those where the customer added appliances and such), the price was not changed with the customer. The challenge was normally because of a low box count on my estimate. As a salesperson, how do you prove the customer packed more stuff than they showed you during the walkthrough? Since that's tough to do, you "bite the bullet," give up your sales commission, and eat the difference in price. Also, I am capable of making an error on occasion, so when the driver challenges the weight, it has usually been my mistake. In my experience, I've found only a handful of customers who really try to take advantage of the salesperson and the moving company. I feel the same way about most customers as I do about most movers, they are honest people. Also, I think you are going to see more shipments "flat priced" with no weight tickets required as time goes along. It's my opinion, the marketplace will keep the price fair and competitive for the customer.

MusicMom
Posts: 19323
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Location: DC Metro

Re: Moving from Avon Mass to Bridgewater Mass

Postby MusicMom » Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:25 am

I agree with Chaz, and indeed I should have reminded people that IN GENERAL it's best for a weight based estimate. I can think of a few that flat rates solely, without complaints..

In the end, it comes down to the trust factor. Know your potential mover's track record.

Guys, as pros who do flat rate moves, what do you do if, hypothetically, one customer takes the entire volume of the truck. In that shipment, they have an extensive library, and it puts the truck overweight. Have you ever dealt with this? Do you ever have customers specifically ask for volume moves because they know their load is heavy?

odedcarmi
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:38 pm

Re: Moving from Avon Mass to Bridgewater Mass

Postby odedcarmi » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:22 pm

MusicMom,

Oh boy we have definitely run into this problem before! Each truck has a predetermined Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) that it can not exceed. Most local moving trucks are of the 24 to 26 foot variety and have a GVW of 26000 LBs. Long distance tractor trailers and tandem trucks have a much higher GVW and require the driver to have special licensing (Class A, Class B, etc.) in order to drive them.

So if you have a full truck with a very heavy inventory you do run the risk of being "overweight." When trucks travel down the highway they are required to pull into any open weigh stations that they pass. While most trucks are waved on through, sometimes they will be pulled in and weighed.

According to my experience when a truck is found to be overweight, 1 of 2 things can happen. The company can be fined 1$ for every pound overweight. So for example if the truck is found to be 3000 Lb over (which can definitely happen) then the fine would be $3000, which is hefty by any means.

Usually the weigh stations are not out to get the truckers and therefore will hold the truck until another can arrive to pick up the excess weight.

I have not run into customers that are trying to take advantage of the system. It’s usually a costly situation that is unpredictable and almost impossible to avoid. That being said:

1) Most of the times trucks are not overweight.
2) Most weigh stations in the North East are closed.
3) Even when they are open they usually wave trucks through.

So it happens very rarely. I look at it as “the cost of doing business.”

Sincerely,

Oded Carmi
General Manager
DN Van Lines

chaz4moving
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:02 am
Location: Lancaster PA

Re: Moving from Avon Mass to Bridgewater Mass

Postby chaz4moving » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:54 pm

I've had situations where we could not get everything on the truck and had to handle what was left as an overflow. No additional cost to the customer; however, there was a delay in them getting whatever was in the overflow. With household goods, you seldom run into being overweight although it can happen. I've not encountered it often. I guess the people I've moved don't read much. LOL I've never had anyone request exclusive use because of volume. We may ocassionally require it. Most of time, exclusivw use is requested because the customer wants to be the only load on the truck or they want delivery as soon as possible.


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